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Best selling feature of Esperanto

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Ubutumwa 20

ururimi: English

yyaann (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 17:40:30

Alkanadi:Esperanto is about 5 to 10 times easier to learn than French, so you would expect to take about 40 to 80 hours of study to achieve a comparable language level in Esperanto..."
When it comes to how easier Esperanto is, I've seen a lot of such figures being thrown, but no reference whatsoever to anything resembling a scientific study. No description of the teaching procedures. No details about how these data were measured and analysed. No trace of a control group learning another language to compare the study group against. In fact I have come to the conclusion that people citing this kind of figures are just repeating what they have heard from other Esperantists.

I have anecdotal evidence that Esperanto is relatively easy to learn, including my own learning experience (though anecdotal evidence to the contrary exists as well). But I think people are doing the language a disservice when they make that sort of claim without anything solid to back it up.

I would have no problem with them just saying that plenty of anecdotal evidence suggests that Esperanto is easier even though it isn't clear how easier it is. But here they are citing (making up?) numbers. Should we really create that kind of expectations in the beginner's mind if we actually don't know?

erinja (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 18:09:01

There are studies with control groups but I agree with your main point. I don't love the idea of citing vague statistics from nameless studies to encourage people to learn, I'd rather focus on the aspects of meeting interesting people and having a nice time.

Vestitor (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 18:15:33

Well actually I recently read a 76 page document from the 'Springboard To Languages' project where they have done a study of Esperanto's learning features, on groups of school children, which they later subjected to French (Esperanto and non-Esperanto groups). They also cite several other similar studies, so it's not true to say there is merely anecdotal evidence.

yyaann (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 18:20:06

Vestitor:Well actually I recently read a 76 page document from the 'Springboard To Languages' project where they have done a study of Esperanto's learning features, on groups of school children, which they later subjected to French (Esperanto and non-Esperanto groups). They also cite several other similar studies, so it's not true to say there is merely anecdotal evidence.
Interesting. Do you have any link to the study?

robbkvasnak (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 18:27:38

My better half uses Esperanto with me a lot. He isn't into studying so his Esperanto has evolved thru trial and error - his English more or less too. It is interesting for me experiencing his grasping the norms of Esperanto - he whas been able to master the idea of -n without a formal exeplination. He creates new words all the time with the prefixes and suffixes - he casually put his ring into a pocket in his wallet at the gym and sort of off the cuff said: "la ringujo" with no special mention that he had just made that up - I am sure that he had never heard that before.

nornen (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 18:47:56

Vestitor:Well actually I recently read a 76 page document from the 'Springboard To Languages' project where they have done a study of Esperanto's learning features, on groups of school children, which they later subjected to French (Esperanto and non-Esperanto groups). They also cite several other similar studies, so it's not true to say there is merely anecdotal evidence.
Isn't this study primarily about the propaedeutic value of Esperanto and not so much about its ease of acquisition?

Vestitor (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 19:10:53

yyaann:
Vestitor:Well actually I recently read a 76 page document from the 'Springboard To Languages' project where they have done a study of Esperanto's learning features, on groups of school children, which they later subjected to French (Esperanto and non-Esperanto groups). They also cite several other similar studies, so it's not true to say there is merely anecdotal evidence.
Interesting. Do you have any link to the study?
I couldn't find it online, but I've put it at dropbox for you here.

Vestitor (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 8 Ruheshi 2016 19:14:35

nornen:
Vestitor:Well actually I recently read a 76 page document from the 'Springboard To Languages' project where they have done a study of Esperanto's learning features, on groups of school children, which they later subjected to French (Esperanto and non-Esperanto groups). They also cite several other similar studies, so it's not true to say there is merely anecdotal evidence.
Isn't this study primarily about the propaedeutic value of Esperanto and not so much about its ease of acquisition?
Yes, it is. Though they also discuss the simplicity easing rapid acquisition of the language and the way it starts to get used more quickly. It is with children though and it could be argued that children do the latter with all languages they start learning. This is in the UK though which is a largely monolingual environment.

Alkanadi (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 9 Ruheshi 2016 08:55:25

erinja:Some people insist on...
Imagine that someone accuses you of spreading a false stereotype based on this statement. Then they tell you that "some people" don't insist on that and you are being bigoted.

Alkanadi (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 9 Ruheshi 2016 09:40:36

erinja:I don't love the idea of citing vague statistics from nameless studies...
Imagine you bring this topic up to them because you feel it is harmful to the Esperanto movement, and then they tell you that you should go elsewhere, such as the 4chan website?

Have you ever told someone that "Esperanto is easier than other languages"? Do you have a peer-reviewed scientific study to back it up?

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