Mesaĝoj: 23
Lingvo: English
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-08 10:06:51
There are limits even on democracy; you elect your prime minister, but he appoints his ministerial cabinet. No?
Anyone dissatisfied with this limited democracy probably ought to be pushing for a different sort of social system in the wider sphere.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-08 10:39:52
Vestitor:Did Bemused not already explain that Lernu (and its parent organisation) is not synonymous with Esperanto?Yes, he said that. It is clearly visible for anyone to see.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-08 13:53:52
Alkanadi:No. I have never heard of an institution signing the Prague Manifesto. It was signed by individuals as part of a big campaign to get people to sign it. Not every Esperanto speaker agrees with it and it doesn't represent the only view in the Esperanto community. Regardless of whether the people running lernu agree with it or not, the site itself has no official position on this topic because we are non-political.Bemused:It is owned by a charitable institution, and run by administrators appointed by the institution.Didn't this institution sign on to the Prague Manifesto? Shouldn't there actions be in accordance with the principles thereof?
Our goal is to teach Esperanto, not to involve ourselves in Esperanto community politics.
Websites are not governments, so talk of democracy/republic/dictatorship doesn't make a lot of sense. A normal website has terms of service, and if you want to use the site, you need to follow the terms of service. In the case of Facebook it means you are at least 13 years old and you aren't allowed to post nude pictures (and a ton of other rules). In the case of most newspapers it means you can't put profanities or hate speech in their comments section. Every newspaper draws the line a little differently regarding what they do and don't allow.
If you want a website with no rules, this isn't the one to come to. You could try 4chan, which makes a point of not having any rules. There was a disgruntled member of this forum some time back who made his own "no rules forum" somewhere on the internet and linked to it from here. Perhaps someone can dig up the link for anyone who is interested in a 'no rules' Esperanto forum. This, however, is not that forum. Sorry.
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-08 15:44:32
Alkanadi:Then why didn't you heed it?Vestitor:Did Bemused not already explain that Lernu (and its parent organisation) is not synonymous with Esperanto?Yes, he said that. It is clearly visible for anyone to see.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-09 08:48:31
erinja:If you want a website with no rules, this isn't the one to come to.Do you see how terrible this logic is? It is authoritarian reasoning.
Imagine a club that only allows men. We will call it the Totary Club as a random example. If women want to join, should they be told that this is not a club for them and they should go elsewhere? Maybe they could make their own club.
What if an immigrant is struggling with some laws? Should they be told to go elsewhere?
What about trans people who have to go to the bathroom? Should they be told to shop at a different mall?
What about a school that is teaching that evolution and climate change are false. It is easy for people to send their kids elsewhere.
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-09 09:27:48
And the authorities can best just take down all the road signage so that people can drive in any way they see fit, without restraint?
In any case, this website is a service provided essentially for free, but it is not public property. So it runs to the rule of: 'my house my rules'. Someone else pays for this website and has appointed someone to oversee it. You have two choices:
1. Accept it.
2. Launch a coup.
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-09 09:54:51
Vestitor:Maybe a school can remove all its rules...In a civilized society, everyone has the freedom to do as they like, as long as they don't harm others.
Using a school is a good analogy because Lernu is kind of like a school.
Imagine a school that taught a different version of events related to WW2. Would that cause outrage? Imagine the school tells people that they should take their kids elsewhere if they don't like it. There are thousands of schools in every city. They could just go elsewhere if they don't like it. They could even homeschool their kids, right.
And the authorities can best just take down all the road signage...This would cause car accidents.
So it runs to the rule of: 'my house my rules'.I agree with you. As I already stated, it is authoritarian reasoning that governs this site. Yet, they label it as a "Community".
Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-09 10:47:05
Alkanadi:ExactlyVestitor:Maybe a school can remove all its rules...In a civilized society, everyone has the freedom to do as they like, as long as they don't harm others.
Alkanadi:That was the point!Vestitor:And the authorities can best just take down all the road signage...This would cause car accidents.
Alkanadi:Even communities have rules.Vestitor:So it runs to the rule of: 'my house my rules'.I agree with you. As I already stated, it is authoritarian reasoning that governs this site. Yet, they label it as a "Community".
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-09 11:03:28
Vestitor:So, we agree that I have the right to express opinions contrary to the opinions of the admins.Alkanadi:ExactlyVestitor:Maybe a school can remove all its rules...In a civilized society, everyone has the freedom to do as they like, as long as they don't harm others.
Hurt feelings don't count as harm because otherwise you could claim that everything you don't like is hurting your feelings.
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2016-junio-09 11:59:30