Cause of eternal beginners
ca, kivuye
Ubutumwa 118
ururimi: English
lagtendisto (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruheshi 2016 11:48:46
Alkanadi:This proves the point that the tools for learning Esperanto are poor quality.It only proves your disablity of emotional self-control to put usefulness out of every language course.
Alkanadi:I am grateful to the ones who created them. Muddy water is better than dying of thirst.So, you need Esperanto language like water but 'they' only serve you this muddy edukado.net stuff?
lagtendisto (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruheshi 2016 11:50:16
Alkanadi:Then present concept for mid-level, intermediate material to edukado.net.Polaris:There definitely IS a need for mid-level, intermediate material.That is so true.
dbob (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruheshi 2016 11:51:06
Alkanadi:Researchers say that motivation is the number one factor in learning a language.Or maybe there is only 2% who really have motivation. I think is a combination of both: if you find a particular course boring you may loose motivation, but if you have enough motivation there is nothing which can prevent you from learning. At least that is my own experience.
If the system only works for 2% then it is a failure.
lagtendisto (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruheshi 2016 11:55:16
Alkanadi:Thats really nothing new.erinja:Effort makes such a difference, doesn't it?Researchers say that motivation is the number one factor in learning a language.
Alkanadi:And you are legitimated to execute the sentence?...one or two, a small percentage, who actually put effort into it and came out speaking well enough...If the system only works for 2% then it is a failure.
Vestitor (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruheshi 2016 12:13:03
Alkanadi:The first bit above is just a flight of fancy. We can only be concerned with reality and what is available.erinja:Are you saying that you became proficient at every skill that you ever started learning? If so, that is truly remarkable.Keep in mind that a quitter is different than an eternal beginner.
Imagine that Aliens came to earth and they developed a language learning program that was so effective that you could be fluent in Hebrew after only 10 hours of study. You could study all in one day or spread it out as much as you want. In such a case, Hebrew will become the lingua franca of the world.
Conversely, languages that don't have any tools will never be learned by anyone.
I don't quite get the point you are making in the part I put into bold. Self-contained it is a truism, and yet it isn't true and has no bearing on reality because there are no languages 'without tools'. It doesn't make sense.
'A bad workman blames his tools' we say. Perhaps I would add that a lazy apprentice always blames his lack of progress on a lack of tools.
In an age of easy consumption people have forgotten how to make much out of little. If you read back in the thread, and in other threads, there are people who originally learned from single sources: a postal course (Erinja), the old Teach Yourself Book (Sudanglo). First you digest that material then move on. It's a process like any other: putting down a foundation, then building on top of it. Refining, filling gaps, fixing errors.
There's a strange sort of perfectionism in your posts. As though the business of learning things can be made effortless; that it may have a technological solution.
erinja (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruheshi 2016 13:25:45
Alkanadi:There is a televised Esperanto course. There are two TV-based Esperanto courses, I believe you've watched at least one.erinja:Why yes, I COULD spend 30 minutes working on a language course or working out at the gym or cleaning my house this evening - or else I could sit and watch television...Therefore, we need some television based Esperanto education.
But entertainment programming is always easier to watch than something instructional. I've never met a language course that is as gripping as Game of Thrones (or as gripping as I suppose it to be based on how much people like to talk about it).
You seem to assume all kinds of things. It would be absurd to suppose that my personal taste for what I feel like reading in my free time is the arbiter of every aspect of this site's content. If a course is not my personal favorite that I would want to learn from, it doesn't mean that it's a bad course or a worthless course or a course that should not be made available. Some people might love it and in the case of Gerda, I know people who do. And: a whole list of people have worked on this site over the years; the site's present content is the result of a decisions of a lot of different people, and many of these decisions were made before I ever joined the core team. This still doesn't mean that you should not assume anything, one way or the other, on whether I would have made the same choice or a different choice in including any given piece of content.
dbob (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 26 Ruheshi 2016 16:32:24
Vestitor:In an age of easy consumption people have forgotten how to make much out of little. [...] First you digest that material then move on. It's a process like any other: putting down a foundation, then building on top of it. Refining, filling gaps, fixing errors.This is so true. I'm a terribly slow learner, so when I decided three years ago to learn Esperanto, I spent four weeks in a row, four hours a day, dedicated to one single basic course. The rest of the little remaining time, I read Esperanto stuff all over the Internet, just to make sure I was getting it right. Afterwards I could relax and make other courses at a much non-intensive pace.
I think there is a "danger" with intensive learning, specially with self-learning: if you learn something very quickly, you may also forget it very quickly, unless you PRACTICE it on a DAILY basis, or at least as much as you can. Fortunately, regular practice is the fun part. You can practice by reading something you like, watching Esperanto YouTube videos, etc.
The one thing I consider the best way of progress after practicing the basics is what I call writing by imitation. The act of writing forces your mind to put into practice all you have learned by reading. As soon as you try to write something meaningful in Esperanto lots of doubts and questions arise in your head (at least in my case). Whenever I get stuck while writing, I imitate the way good esperantist authors do it. Although not perfect (what is?) I find Tekstaro is an invaluable tool here, not forgetting others like PMEG, E-PIV, ReVo, etc.
Alkanadi (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 27 Ruheshi 2016 08:56:25
Vestitor (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 27 Ruheshi 2016 09:30:33
If this is a mere muddy pool why would you fight so hard here to effect a change rather than just abandoning it for some superior oasis? The truth is you know Lernu is a major Esperanto website.
That's checkmate. Now pack away your board and pieces and save your efforts for learning.
Alkanadi (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 27 Ruheshi 2016 09:33:57
Vestitor:...rather than just abandoning it for some superior oasis?There is no oasis. I am drinking the muddy water because I am thirsty.