Beiträge: 118
Sprache: English
Alkanadi (Profil anzeigen) 12. Juli 2016 09:36:52
Polaris:Nearly every one of them (in all likelihood) did it pretty well on their own...I wish I had a chance to try an Esperanto meetup but there are none in my area. What you said is so true. Most people need good tools and good quality support.
I don't like it when people blame the learner.
I think I am getting pretty good at reading and writing Esperanto. I know myself to be more way more interested and hard working than the average. Therefore, how will the average (or below average) person reach a good level?
eman68 (Profil anzeigen) 12. Juli 2016 14:22:37
lagtendisto (Profil anzeigen) 12. Juli 2016 21:27:24
Alkanadi:Therefore, how will the average (or below average) person reach a good level?In my opinion only skilled teacher or 'Lehramtsanwärter' (1) can do this. Contrary someones only enthusiastic to teach and having some kind of intermediate education those ones will not be prepared to handle aggressive 'redneck' communication style of low class pupil. Low class pupil will burn hobby teacher its enthusiasm away for sure. Anyway, teaching of low class of middle class and children would be possible.
(1) Lehramtsreferendariat (Google Translate)
Vestitor (Profil anzeigen) 12. Juli 2016 23:32:02
There is no doubt some degree of balance between effective teaching and student aptitude, but to imagine that every student's success is a result of effective or failed teaching support is a delusion. If it were true then the majority of foreign language teachers in schools ought to be fired with immediate effect. Would anyone claim that an art class ought to consist entirely of successful artists, rather the reality of some having more interest and aptitude/ability?
If you want to get good at golf you have to play a lot of golf/join a club/watch a lot of golf. On the other hand playing a lot of golf is no guarantee that you'll be good enough to enter the U.S. Golf Open. What it likely will do is pull you out of the position of being an eternal beginner. The same goes for all skills.
lagtendisto (Profil anzeigen) 13. Juli 2016 04:36:22
Vestitor:I strongly disagree that it is merely a matter of constant guidance and the presence of a teacher. Anyone who has had language classes of any sort, leading to some proficiency, will recognise that the moment they clicked and started to 'speak' the language came through usage.I full agree about that motivating click factor of being capable to speak foreign language (Btw that foreign language could be official language, non-parent's language, i.e. German, too). But most primary classes in Germany have 25 to 30 pupils at one class. To bring all of them this click factor of speaking foreign language that seems to be quite difficult.
Vestitor:There is no doubt some degree of balance between effective teaching and student aptitude, but to imagine that every student's success is a result of effective or failed teaching support is a delusion.I refered to Alkanadi's 'below average person' and pupil who have to grow up inside families with tragics someones don't wanna know in detail (inner-family rule of force, sexual abuse etc). That children need to be socialized first to act respectfull each other. Don't expect that easy task. It doesn't happen seldom that even skilled teacher capitulate of that. Okay, its movie but schools described at movie Dangerous Mind exists in Germany, too.
Alkanadi (Profil anzeigen) 13. Juli 2016 07:38:39
Vestitor:If you want to get good at golf you have to play a lot of golf/join a club/watch a lot of golf.For a beginner, playing golf a lot won't help. They need guidance. Imagine you give them a book and tell them to study it and apply the techniques they learned.
It would be better to have a variety of teachings methods including audio and visual, or computer simulations. After they learn the concepts, they can practice a lot.
People need good tools.
Vestitor (Profil anzeigen) 13. Juli 2016 09:45:22
erinja (Profil anzeigen) 13. Juli 2016 16:29:36
Alkanadi:It would be better to have a variety of teachings methods including audio and visual, or computer simulations. After they learn the concepts, they can practice a lot.Yeah. What a shame it is that Esperanto's tools never progressed beyond one or two print textbooks from the 1800's, with no other options for learning. These very minimal learning resources are surely why Esperanto has so many eternal beginners.
People need good tools.
Bemused (Profil anzeigen) 13. Juli 2016 23:37:19
erinja:Yeah. Imagine what a difference it would make if there were whole libraries of books in Esperanto, magazines, radio programs, websites dedicated to helping learners, you tube videos. Oh wait, there are all these thingsAlkanadi:It would be better to have a variety of teachings methods including audio and visual, or computer simulations. After they learn the concepts, they can practice a lot.Yeah. What a shame it is that Esperanto's tools never progressed beyond one or two print textbooks from the 1800's, with no other options for learning. These very minimal learning resources are surely why Esperanto has so many eternal beginners.
People need good tools.
Vestitor (Profil anzeigen) 14. Juli 2016 00:53:49