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"A's B" in esperanto

从 apriliss, 2016年7月7日

讯息： 24

语言: English

apriliss (显示个人资料) 2016年7月7日上午4:01:13

In English we can say something which belongs to something else by "A's B" instead of "B of A". Is the similar way of saying possible in Esperanto too? Cause It doesn't seem to be except the specific possessives (mia, ilia...)

ekz
- My sister's boy is gonna come.
- That book is John's diary.
- My mother's disease has gotten worse.

erinja (显示个人资料) 2016年7月7日上午4:44:50

Sorry, B of A is the only way to do it. There's no equivalent to the 's of English.

bryku (显示个人资料) 2016年7月8日下午2:23:30

erinja:Sorry, B of A is the only way to do it. There's no equivalent to the 's of English.
Actually there is: Aa B

Vestitor (显示个人资料) 2016年7月8日下午2:53:19

bryku:
erinja:Sorry, B of A is the only way to do it. There's no equivalent to the 's of English.
Actually there is: Aa B
Is there a sample sentence of this? Representative variables are not that helpful.

tommjames (显示个人资料) 2016年7月8日下午3:41:58

Use of adjectives is certainly no "equivalent" of the genitive case, and it is rarely if ever a suitable alternative to the normal "de".

The OP's phrases should be:

My sister's boy is gonna come → Venos la filo de mia fratino
That book is John's diary → Tiu libro estas la taglibro de John
My mother's disease has gotten worse → La malsano de mia patrino pli malboniĝis

If you say something like "mia patrina malsano" instead of "la malsano de mia patrino" it will be understood that you are sick, with some "motherish" disease.

bryku (显示个人资料) 2016年7月8日下午5:10:47

tommjames:If you say something like "mia patrina malsano" instead of "la malsano de mia patrino" it will be understood that you are sick, with some "motherish" disease.
Can you read? It was "Aa B", not "mia Aa B" or something else.

Sister's room = fratina ĉambro

John's ball = Johana pilko

...

rann (显示个人资料) 2016年7月8日下午10:16:05

I believe the only way to use the "-a" method is by using "de" at the head of the word. This is quite unconventional though

Ex:
La libro de Johano -> La deJohana libro.

La ĉambro de la knabo ~> La deknaba ĉambro

The only thing, as seen with the second example, is that one can't express determinacy for the compound (unless inherent in the possesor), it's only possible via context. I don't recommend doing this method at all, just use the "A de B" method.

RiotNrrd (显示个人资料) 2016年7月8日下午11:20:34

bryku:
Can you read?
I can read. And I've certainly read enough books on Esperanto to know that Aa B for possession is a load of nonsense.

It is B de A.

"Fratina ĉambro" does not mean "sister's room", it means "sister-room", which probably makes sense in some metaphorical context surrounding multiple rooms. "Johana pilko" does not mean "John's ball", it means "a ball (somehow) like John" (perhaps it has his face pictured on it). In neither case does it imply ownership or possession.

bryku (显示个人资料) 2016年7月9日上午7:37:19

RiotNrrd:
bryku:
Can you read?
I can read.
Example from PMEG:

Kiam la radiko de A-vorto ne havas ecan signifon, la A-vorto povas montri diversspecajn priskribojn. Ĝenerale la signifo de tia A-vorto multe varias laŭ la kunteksto:
reĝa palaco = “palaco kiu apartenas al reĝo” = king's palace

"fratina ĉambro" does mean sister's room. I can not argue with you in English, because it is not my mother's tongue (patrina lingvo, he he), and you'll always win, not that you are right, but that you use it better than me.

Perhaps you have read many esperanto books. But I strongly recommend to you to read also this one:

"Paŝoj al plena posedo" by William Auld. There you will find many, many great word building examples, which will change your way to perceive the esperanto.

And:

"Aa B" is just an example for one case or two. Not the ultimate method to express the English Saxon Genitive in Esperanto as many here believe. Sometimes it is convenient to have other means of expressing some meaning to avoid many uses of "de ... de... de", which is boring in the long run.

Vestitor (显示个人资料) 2016年7月9日上午9:28:54

I'm troubled by this. If it's inserted in sentences it is not clear what is exactly meant:

Li realigis ke tiu estis la reĝa palaco.

Does that mean:

1. He realised that it was the king's palace?
2. He realised it was the royal palace? (reĝa = 'kingly' = royal).

At first I thought, yes it makes sense because you can say: Tiu estas ŝia libro, but if you extend the sentence as: 'Ĉi tiu estas ŝia frata libro...' does it mean anything other that 'her fraternal book'?

On the other hand I would probably have read Ĉi tiu estas ŝia patra/patrina libro as meaning her father's/mother's book.

I'm confused now.. malgajo.gif

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