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Couple of beginner's questions

של daz7887, 22 באוגוסט 2016

הודעות: 16

שפה: English

daz7887 (הצגת פרופיל) 28 באוגוסט 2016, 03:45:18

המסר הוסתר

Fenris_kcf (הצגת פרופיל) 28 באוגוסט 2016, 07:56:36

sudanglo:Of course it is easy enough to make the distinction by suitable re-phrasing or adding a preposition, but nevertheless I sometimes think that it would be nice to have a separate word for share as not everything that can be shared is divisible, and sharing may not imply division.
I believe i already told, that the English word "share" originates from the Proto Germanic word "skeraną", which is also the source for the English word "shear". So actually "share" didn't mean to have something together without divison. English just imported the Latin word "divide" and "share" lost the meaning of division. Therefore: No need to pretend that English does it "the right way".

And in Esperanto you can just use "kunhavi" in the sence of a non-dividing sharing.

opalo (הצגת פרופיל) 28 באוגוסט 2016, 11:16:37

Ankoraŭ and jam are usually translated as still and already, but this is misleading in many contexts. The ankoraŭ—jam dichotomy is tricky for English-speakers. Basically:
  • Ankoraŭ refers to continuation, steadiness of state, a sense that more is to come.
  • Jam refers to change, volatility or readiness to change, a sense of being overtaken by events.
This is why ankoraŭ ne is always "not yet" and jam ne is always "no longer".

Both "Have you done it yet?" and "Have you already done it?" could be candidates for the use of jam. However, in the first question, you are expecting the action to have been completed, while in the second, you are not. To express the nuances clearly, I would suggest Vi faris ĝin, ĉu ne? for the first, and Ĉu vi faris ĝin tiel frue? for the second.

Are you getting ready yet? — simply Ĉu vi pretiĝas? or Vi pretiĝas, ĉu ne?
Are you already getting ready? — Ĉu vi pretiĝas tiel frue?

sudanglo (הצגת פרופיל) 28 באוגוסט 2016, 12:09:23

I would have thought that Ĉu vi jam pretiĝas? could be used both when you want to know if someone has started getting ready and also to express surprise that someone has already started getting ready.

Facial expression, tone of voice, context etc may distinguish.

For the expression of surprise perhaps you could say - Ĉu vi jam nun pretiĝas?

And when you suspect that someone has still not started getting reading - Ĉu vi ankoraŭ ne komencis pretiĝi?

Vestitor (הצגת פרופיל) 28 באוגוסט 2016, 16:22:25

sudanglo:but nevertheless I sometimes think that it would be nice to have a separate word for share as not everything that can be shared is divisible, and sharing may not imply division.
I happened to be writing something for a Wikipedia entry today and got a bit stuck over several iterations of 'share' (user-share/market-share and shared resources), but after some thinking I realised that they do actually all imply division, it's just that in the cases where the 'object' is not necessarily physically divided, it is the time or usage or space occupied which is divided.

I somewhat agree with what Fenris wrote above, except that I don't think kunhavi is actually a completely accurate description of what is happening in something like 'market-share' where competing entities are occupying a central arena, rather than collaborating in it, or both "having" it (the whole thing) together. It is divided.

None of this illuminated the word choices I needed.

daz7887 (הצגת פרופיל) 29 באוגוסט 2016, 07:01:59

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