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Reflexive question de komencanto

от ailebol, 19 марта 2008 г.

Сообщений: 25

Язык: English

awake (Показать профиль) 23 апреля 2008 г., 11:29:05

hiyayaywhopee:
When one speaks about animals, I suggest always using the neuter pronoun "ĝi," not only when (in the majority of cases) the sex of the said animal is indistinguishable to you, but even in those occasions when we speak precisely about the sex of the animal. In very rare cases, when precision is able to absolutely require that we show the sex of the animal through use of the pronouns, the theory does not allow you to use the pronoun "li" or "ŝi"; but in all ordinary occasions I would suggest using the pronouns "li" and "ŝi" only for people.
Whoops, We must have been typing at the same time, your post wasnt up when I made my translation. I note one small error in yours though (Mine probably has some too lol).

"the theory does not allow" should be "the theory does not forbid" (MALpermesas). Otherwise nice job. your translation is a bit less literal than mine is, but I think it flows better. It's always an interesting choice when translating. Do you translate the passage word for word (as I more or less did) or do you translate the content? For beginners I tend to do the former more, but now that I think about it, it's probably pretty useful to see both types.

awake (Показать профиль) 23 апреля 2008 г., 11:29:48

Vagabondo:Thanks, awake! Your translation is brilliant.
You're welcome. ridulo.gif

hiyayaywhopee (Показать профиль) 25 апреля 2008 г., 0:29:07

I translated it literally at first, then went back and rephrased those parts that sounded awkward to me. Thanks for reading over it, though - I'm still a beginner myself (probably should've noted that...) and relied heavily on the dictionary.

About what was actually translated, it would be hard to convince pet owners not to use "li" or "ŝi."

tommjames (Показать профиль) 25 апреля 2008 г., 11:13:05

mnlg:
ailebol:He says that his (his own) dog is washing its face.
Li diras, ke lia [propra] hundo estas lavanta sian vizaĝon.
He says that his (some one else’s) dog is washing its face.
Li diras, ke lia (aliula) hundo estas lavanta sian vizaĝon.
I notice that without the addition of the bracketed words (propra / aliula), both translations are exactly the same and thus there is ambiguity with regards to who's dog is washing its face.

Am I right in thinking the only way to resolve this is the addition of words like "propra" and "aliula" into the sentence to indicate the exact person?

Or did you mean that "propra" and "aliula" should replace the word "lia"?

mnlg (Показать профиль) 25 апреля 2008 г., 11:29:05

Every language can determine ambiguous situations. I offered a way to resolve it when there is the need to be specific.

The word "lia" should be omitted when using "aliula"; it can be omitted with "propra", however "propra" (according to my dictionary) also means "proper", so the result would retain some ambiguity:

"lia propra hundo" = "his own dog"
"propra hundo" = "[someone's, presumably the subject's] own dog", or "a proper dog".

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