Mesaĝoj: 41
Lingvo: English
pacepacapaco (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-24 02:08:35
), I think I understand. But can't "okay" be expressed by words like boneta, deca, permesi, etc? I understand "okej" as a weaker, passive form of "jes," an expression of reluctant or uncertain acceptance of a truth or a proposal/command whereas "jes" expresses approval/assent? If so, I think "okeji" makes sense in the same way that "jesi" makes sense, but "okejo" bothers me.Sorry if I'm not being logical.
Pedro33 (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 13:21:45
Le Hibou: 3) As a stand-alone interjection, "okej!" seems to fill a gap for me, although this might just be because I'm English.No, also for me as a Dutchman, "okej" as an interjection is perfectly acceptable and completely in line with the 15th rule of the Fundamento de Esperanto.
Excluding "okej" as interjection I would define as anti-english behaviour. There are no real justifications for doing so. We can try to translate "okay" by other Esperanto words, but these words come only close. I feel that exactly that is the reason, why "okay" has won terrain in so many languages.
But don't start saying "okeja", that doesn't make sense.
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 13:55:24
Pedro33:Excluding "okej" as interjection I would define as anti-english behaviour.???
Even imagining for a second that someone has officially excluded "okej" (which, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't happened), would that mean that, for instance, excluding "ĉaŭ" would be anti-italian simply because we already have "saluton", "hej" and "ĝis"?
There are no real justifications for doing so.I disagree, but I won't repeat what I already said.
We can try to translate "okay" by other Esperanto words, but these words come only close.This stays true for many, many other words in many languages. It is not Esperanto's role to recreate exactly every single nuance in every single word.
If you like "okej", feel free to use it. Throwing accusations of antienglishism is a bit too much, though.
Betka (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 15:47:42
eb.eric:The only problem I have with bone is that it's too strong. Maybe bonete works though.I'd use suficxe bone, but the disadvantage is that it's two words.
Hilded:IF we use OK, we should NOT pronounce it "okej", but sound out the leters like "O.Ko.". At least that's what I'm used to in my native language, where it sounds like "U.Ko." (If you read it as if it where written in Esperanto).That would make sense, "O.Ka." is relatively common here.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 16:08:18
eb.eric:The only problem I have with bone is that it's too strong. Maybe bonete works though.I see this as a context issue. I use "bone" to mean "OK" all the time, and I have never been misunderstood. I do not feel that "bone" is too strong to mean "ok".
Sample dialogue:
A: Let's go shopping!
B: I don't think we have time, I need to be somewhere in 2 hours.
A: I assure you that we'll be back by then!
B: [in an uncertain voice] OK...
Does anyone here think that B really thinks this situation is completely ok? B says "OK" even though we clearly know (based on tone of voice and context) that things are not ok. In my opinion, I think it's because in every language, we sometimes say things that aren't strictly true. How many times do you say "ok" to something that is not really ok? A lot, right? In my book, tone of voice and context count a lot ("bone" in an uncertain tone has a far different meaning than "bone!" in a cheery, confident, upbeat tone). Exact wording counts a lot. I wouldn't say "Tio bonas" unless I actually thought something was good, but I use "bone" all the time, even when I don't necessarily think something is good or even ok. And if I were B, having the sample conversation above in Esperanto, I would definitely have said "bone" (in the same uncertain, not-so-happy tone of voice).
I think this is why "okej" is seldom seen among experienced Esperanto speakers, and why even those experienced speakers who use it, tend to use it only in very limited circumstances, far less often than they use it in their native languages. I think that the longer most people speak Esperanto, the less they see a need for a word like "okej". I think most people find that existing Esperanto words convey their feelings just fine.
Dreamlight (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 05:36:16
As far as goes a word to describe one's state of health or well-being, probably the best translation would be 'bonete'.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 13:14:18
Dreamlight (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-03 04:20:56
Actually, I sometimes think that the Dekses Reguloj are too rigid for the language's own good, but the pronunciation 'ókej' is good enough.PS: @pacepacapaco, yes, after much dispute among lingusts, the etymological origin of 'okay' was found to originate from 'Oll Korrect', itself arising at a time when intentional, usually humouristic, misspelling of English words had a sort of vogue.
KriZe (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-03 23:13:27
Dreamlight:As I use the word in English and German, have have seen it used in Esperanto, I'll continue to use it in Esperanto as 'okej'I have 2 denaskulojn and I try to say "ho bone" instead, but I use "OK" so much in English, I can't avoid it even in Esperanto. For me it's "o kej".
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-04 03:25:53
KriZe:=I have 2 denaskulojn and I try to say "ho bone" instead, but I use "OK" so much in English, I can't avoid it even in Esperanto. For me it's "o kej".Nice to see you here, KriZe, Hokan passed along the youtube video of you and your son, very cute!
Interesting how "okay" is a problem for you. I guess my mind works differently, but although I say "okay" constantly in English, it has been completely supplanted by "bone" in my Esperanto vocabulary.
My Achilles heel is the word "do", which I tend to use as filler just as I use "so" in English - and sometimes it accidentally slips out as so, to boot!