Mesaĝoj: 62
Lingvo: English
trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 20:54:06
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 21:02:51
trojo:Maybe someone who speaks a little of the Italiano can help us out.Right here.
monforte appears to be an Italian family name, or part of the name of a town in ItalyApparently. I never heard that word before (not even in geographical or family names) and I can't figure out what it was meant to be. The closest I can think of is "panforte", which is some sort of cake from the city of Siena, Tuscany (spickuko or mielkuko, according to my dictionary).
Hmm. Is the Eo-It definition for this in error then?
It might be dialectal. Wouldn't know which dialect, though.
The Italian vortaro gives this as "regata" which is Italian for "regatta", a (competetive) ship-race, according to Wikipedia. Shouldn't the Esperanto term be "ŝipvetkuro" then?In Italian, "regata" is not always competitive; it might just be a parade (as I live in Venice I know a thing or two about that). AFAIK, Esperanto has "regato".
trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 21:19:37
mnlg:Anyone object to deleting "monforte" from the vortaro? Might be confusing to have apparently erroneous words in there.
Apparently. I never heard that word before (not even in geographical or family names) and I can't figure out what it was meant to be. The closest I can think of is "panforte", which is some sort of cake from the city of Siena, Tuscany (spickuko or mielkuko, according to my dictionary).
It might be dialectal. Wouldn't know which dialect, though.
In Italian, "regata" is not always competitive; it might just be a parade (as I live in Venice I know a thing or two about that). AFAIK, Esperanto has "regato".According to Vikipedio, it's "regatto":
http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regatto
But "regatto" seems to lean more toward the English meaning of regatta (boat-race) according to that article. I guess "ŝipkuro" is as good a word as any for the Italian "regata", although "boatfesto" might be clearer, I dunno.
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-01 22:07:53
trojo:According to Vikipedio, it's "regatto":Beware of word roots with double consonants.
I guess "ŝipkuro" is as good a word as any for the Italian "regata", although "boatfesto" might be clearer, I dunno.As I said, "regata" can mean both things. I think "ŝipkuro" can be enough most of the times.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 00:12:26
As a last resort though, has anyone looked in their PIV to see if PIV has it? If even PIV doesn't have a word, usually that means it's a pretty "pridubinda" (pri/dub/ind/a) word! (unless it refers to modern technology)
mnlg, I know you have a PIV.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 01:15:17
The procedure would be:
(a) search the word to make sure it isn't in the dictionary yet (and even if it is, make sure the definition includes the given definition)
(b) add the word and its translation to the dictionary, assuming it wasn't already present.
I also have some long lists of Esperanto words without translations. If anyone would like to go through them one by one to check whether they are in the dictionary, and add them if they are not, please let me know and you can help out with that as well. Otherwise I will work on it myself!
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 01:28:12
RiotNrrd:On the other hand, from a sort of "purist" point of view, one could make the argument that the Esperanto word list should be entirely Esperanto...OK, for what it's worth, I've already violated my own proposed standard.
Last night I noticed, with some amazement actually, that the word "tense" had no Esperanto translation (in neither the sense of "tight" nor as an indicator of time for verbs). So I added both meanings, and put English "hints" - for want of a better word - along with the Esperanto translations. I can't think of a better way to distinguish between the terms. I briefly thought about using Esperanto "hints", but thought that that might not be as helpful to beginners.
So, there's at least one example in there now about how I considered distinguishing between terms. Does anyone think this method is good? Bad? We can always change it, of course.
On the marking of verb transitivities, I agree with those who think that EACH verb should get its own marker. It takes up more space, but it removes any ambiguities. I think the latter is more important.
I am not able to enter the transitivities of the English verbs because I have no ready and/or reliable resource for determining English transitivities. Simply being a native speaker is not sufficiently authoritative. I DO have such a resource for the Esperanto words, though (i.e., the Plena Vortaro De Esperanto Kun Suplemento), so I'll be entering those as I proceed.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 01:43:54
And all of my explanatory comments are in English, not Esperanto. Presumably someone wouldn't be using the English/Esperanto or Esperanto/English dictionaries unless they had some level of English.
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 07:13:22
erinja:I support translating ŝipkuro as regatta. And I would support removing "monforte" from the dictionary.PIV has regatto (defined as boatkonkurso, so explicitly restricted to smaller ŝipoj). It is superscripted 'Z', so guess who used it!
Monforte sounds to me like a compound word made up on the spur of the moment by someone talking about achieving something by bribery or financial sanctions, at any rate by the power of money - mon/forte. That sounds all right to me. It isn't in PIV, and probably doesn't belong in the vortaro, but it might be a suitable exercise, or illustration of the possibilities of E-o.
Docxjo (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-02 07:23:28
erinja:I have some word lists ...I would be happy to help with this.