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Endless 'planned language projects'

від Vestitor, 22 вересня 2016 р.

Повідомлення: 24

Мова: English

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 22 вересня 2016 р. 19:16:00

Can anyone honestly tell me what the point is of all these endless planned language projects? Before receiving answers I will acknowledge some possible derivative benefits:

1. Understanding grammar construction (though this can be gained from any language study, and is in fact less important than imagined).
2. The remote, though not unthinkable, possibility that someone will devise the holy grail of a language, which is not only near-effortless to learn, but also uber-trendy enough to spread like wildfire and be adopted.

'Just for the fun of it' seems to me like an enormous waste of time and effort. Time that could be devoted to Esperanto, in many ways. Not least in non-cultish promotion. Probably also time that could be spent on so much else in this time-scarce life. People may well pat themselves on the back after having concocted another semi-Esperanto derivative (as most of the more realistic ones seem to be), but surely that glow fades quickly when no-one seriously takes it up?

lagtendisto (Переглянути профіль) 22 вересня 2016 р. 19:49:54

Maybe Mark Rosenfelder its The Language Construction Kit could explain you fascination of conlanging. Same with David J. Peterson its videoblogs.

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 22 вересня 2016 р. 22:50:45

*whooshing sound* Is that a piece of tumbleweed I see there?

I read the links. I see that, as I suspected, it is mainly a pastime for sci-fi addicts. I honestly hope this doesn't represent the largest section of Esperantists, because if it does its future is doomed to stagnation.

lagtendisto (Переглянути профіль) 23 вересня 2016 р. 04:24:08

Vestitor:I see that, as I suspected, it is mainly a pastime for sci-fi addicts*.
Vestitor:I honestly hope this doesn't represent the largest section of Esperantists, ...
But what then if it would be so? What about those who doesn't fit your imaginery of Esperantists one-body-metaphor? Will then they denounced like traitors who are only worth to be despised*?

Vestitor:... because if it does its future is doomed to stagnation.
"Doomed to stagnation"; thats slogan what tries to place hysteria and fear into some community. Do you wish this happen?

Christa627 (Переглянути профіль) 23 вересня 2016 р. 07:12:01

As it happens, "just for the fun of it" is actually a perfectly legitimate reason. Sure, I could give up doodling, making crocheted pie slices, and playing Frisbee, and devote all my time to non-cultish promotion of Esperanto. But that would be a rather boring life, and, ironically, demonstrate a rather cultish devotion to E-o. For most conlangers, conlanging is a hobby, and is no more or less valid than any other hobby. Just because it isn't what you would choose to do, doesn't mean it doesn't provide enjoyment to people, and that's essentially what any hobby is for.

Now if you want my two cents (and even if you don't), I think spending one's time on internet forums ridiculing people for their interests is far more of a waste of time and far more counter-productive than inventing a language that nobody speaks, or even one that is inherently unspeakable.

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 23 вересня 2016 р. 16:03:57

I'm saying that Esperanto has little hope of ever becoming a contender as a major language when a large share of its users are doodling about with so-called 'languages' created for imaginary alien races. I don't hide the fact that I find it ridiculous and it that upsets people so much then there's probably a grain of truth in it.

You can have your two cents (which is also precisely what that thread-opener up there is). I don't waste my time on here, I'm in bed at night and at work during the (long) day. A discussion about a large number of Esperanto's users being happy to let it tick over as a conlang for the few is a legitimate discussion I think. The idea of creating an 'unspeakable' language seems to me, well unspeakably stupid and wasteful.

I don't have a cultish devotion to Eo either. I'm really only interested in it being a language, a communication means, not a funny little hobby, which is a lot more cultish.

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 23 вересня 2016 р. 16:08:46

lagtendisto:
Vestitor:I see that, as I suspected, it is mainly a pastime for sci-fi addicts*.
Vestitor:I honestly hope this doesn't represent the largest section of Esperantists, ...
But what then if it would be so? What about those who doesn't fit your imaginery of Esperantists one-body-metaphor? Will then they denounced like traitors who are only worth to be despised*?

Vestitor:... because if it does its future is doomed to stagnation.
"Doomed to stagnation"; thats slogan what tries to place hysteria and fear into some community. Do you wish this happen?
Do I wish it to happen? It already is happening!

I think this community has been curating a small, stable movement for so long they' tend to forget the point at times.

There are days when I think f*** it, what do I care? English is the dominant force in the world, and just getting stronger, and I am native speaker. I won't suffer at all.

yyaann (Переглянути профіль) 23 вересня 2016 р. 17:05:42

Vestitor:I think this community has been curating a small, stable movement for so long they' tend to forget the point at times.

There are days when I think f*** it, what do I care? English is the dominant force in the world, and just getting stronger, and I am native speaker. I won't suffer at all.
Welcome to the second phase of being an Esperantist: desillusionment, frustration and disapointment.
(The third phase usually involves either quitting the movement altogether or renouncing one's great ambitions for Esperanto and just enjoying the community of speakers).

Vestitor (Переглянути профіль) 23 вересня 2016 р. 17:13:58

Nah, that phase was ages ago. You're mistaken. Like I said I'm interested in communication via Esperanto, not singing folk songs and translating poetry.

Christa627 (Переглянути профіль) 23 вересня 2016 р. 19:20:49

Vestitor:Nah, that phase was ages ago. You're mistaken. Like I said I'm interested in communication via Esperanto, not singing folk songs and translating poetry.
Okay, those are your priorities.
The idea of creating an 'unspeakable' language seems to me, well unspeakably stupid and wasteful.
Okay, that is your opinion.

But your priorities and your opinion aren't the only ones that count.

Why do you feel so threatened by other constructed languages? Perhaps your sleep is troubled by nightmares of the dreadful toki akesi that is going to swallow up Esperanto!

I contribute to Esperanto in my own way. I do like writing poetry and singing folk songs. So are you going to slam that too? I also contribute to the Esperanto Stack Exchange, and am perfectly able to do that while participating in the Toki Pona group on Facebook, studying Lojban on and off, and developing my own language that will almost certainly never be spoken by anyone but me, and may never even reach a level of completion such that it can be spoken, but it provides psychological satisfaction, or "fun" as you put it. It's a creative outlet, and an enjoyable activity, which also happens to be more mentally stimulating than watching tv.

P.S. I'm not a sci-fi addict (or even enthusiast), and Krispúket, like many other conlangs, has nothing to do with sci-fi or competing with Esperanto.

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