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Why 'Sendi'?

de Rohan, 2008-majo-17

Mesaĝoj: 20

Lingvo: English

Rohan (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-17 22:15:21

Hello.

If I had to send an e-mail, the button I'd click would read 'Send'. However, in eo, that same button would read 'Sendi'.

Why is the infinitive used in eo in such cases, rather than the imperative? Is it a contraction of 'Alklaku cxi tie por sendi retposxton', just as 'Bonan tagon' is a contraction of 'Mi deziras al vi bonan tagon' ?

Dankon!

mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-17 22:30:05

Rohan:If I had to send an e-mail, the button I'd click would read 'Send'. However, in eo, that same button would read 'Sendi'.
I noticed that as well, and I can only conclude it's the translator's choice. Personally I prefer the -u form (sendu, montru, legu, etc.), but perhaps some languages and cultures would find it too direct.

hiyayaywhopee (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-17 22:56:45

I've noticed that most websites with Esperanto translations (livejournal, ipernity, etc.) use the infinitive verbs for forms and such. My guess is that the infinitives are used as a basic general form.

toiletdude (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-17 23:18:48

Well, if you think about it... in a lot of languages an infinive is 'to -something-'.

So maybe it's a shortened version of:

'[Click here] to send'

Note that the [Click here] is implied because it's a submit button.

Filu (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-18 00:28:04

In French the infinitive is the normal mode we would put the verb on a button. There are exceptions, off course, but most of the time it is used, for it is perceived as the most neutral form: when clicking the button, we are not having an interaction with it, we don't want to discuss with it, we only want to fire up the process of sending to someone whatever we wrote/draw/organized/intended for them.

Using the imperative form in French would have a different connotation than the English "send": when used with tools or objects, the imperative usually means we are not getting from it what we thought or expected we would get.

When I see "sendi", my French mind doesn't think "alklaku ĉi tie por sendi"; it only see and understand that the button is a "sendilo" without further thinking or feeling of strangeness.

For my defense, maybe I should mention that in French, as in Esperanto but unlike in English, the infinitive is only one word, a particular version of the verb, and not a compound of the verb with another word that has around one million other meanings on its own.

pacepacapaco (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-18 03:05:41

In Spanish and Swahili (among other languages, surely), most command forms are identical to the present subjunctive forms of verbs. I don't know if this is also true for Esperanto, but I've seen it used that way:

"Mi esperas, ke ŝi ne estu malsana hodiaŭ."

Perhaps for some speakers, it seems awkward to use a word that they perceive as subjunctive, suggesting a mere possibility, rather than use an indicative form. Or, maybe it's a translation from the languages that must make that distinction.

In any language, a command is not a statement of what will happen or is happening; it's an expression of desire for something to happen. Maybe by using infinitives, the subtle implication of uncertainty is somehow avoided?

novatago (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-18 08:04:56

Rohan:
Why is the infinitive used in eo in such cases, rather than the imperative? Is it a contraction of 'Alklaku cxi tie por sendi retposxton', just as 'Bonan tagon' is a contraction of 'Mi deziras al vi bonan tagon' ?
I don't know why but in Spanish is the same. We use the infinitive or even a sustantive ("filtrilo" instead of "filtri") and very few times imperative. I prefer to see the infinitives or sustantives. I allways have seen it as a sentence like "I would like to open a file" and not like "Computer! open this file!".

Ĝis, Novatago.

Filu (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-18 12:51:44

Re-thinking about it I found an example that might help:

What do I want to do?
I want to send.

Noticed how "I want to" comes back identical to itself in both? A shorter answer would be "send", not "to send"...

On the other hand, Esperanto would have:

Kion mi volas fari?
Mi volas sendi.

In this case, there is no word between 'want' and 'do' (or between 'want' and 'send'); the shorter answer would be "sendi".

sal.gif

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-19 00:34:53

The e-o Wikipedia uses the imperative form for buttons/links (e.g. "redaktu" instead of "redakti"), but they are the only major site I know of that does it this way. The infinitive is much more common.

To me, the imperative seems more logical, but it's not a huge deal I guess.

Rohan (Montri la profilon) 2008-majo-19 04:15:36

I appreciate all the thinking that's going into this from your side, Filu! rido.gif

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