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Make New Old Friends

от jkph00, 15 мая 2017 г.

Сообщений: 20

Язык: English

Vestitor (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2017 г., 17:07:28

david_uk:
It is difficult to make new old friends?
Logically this does not make sense at all. Surely it is impossible to make a new "old friend".

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in English. Can you explain a bit more?
It's not impossible. There may be questions as to what is exactly meant (reacquainting with an old friend / making new friends who are advanced in years), but the sentence is not just a brute oxymoron.

Any native speaker of English should recognise this.

nornen (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2017 г., 20:22:18

I doubt that any literal translation will be able to convey the intended meaning. Try to translate the meaning, not the words.

To be honest, as a non-native speaker, I didn't understand the English original, and if I heard "Estas malfacile amikiĝi kun novaj malnovaj amikoj" I wouldn't know what to think.

david_uk (Показать профиль) 19 мая 2017 г., 13:18:38

@Vestitor
It's not impossible. There may be questions as to what is exactly meant (reacquainting with an old friend / making new friends who are advanced in years), but the sentence is not just a brute oxymoron.

Any native speaker of English should recognise this.
I am a native speaker, and it does not make sense.

In English an "old friend" means a friend that you have known for a long time. So a "new old friend" becomes nonsense.

Using "old friend" to mean a "friend of advanced years" is a very strange thing to do in English.

In Roch's example they say
new "old" friends
to indicate that they are doing something strange, and the meaning can be worked out from the context of the story.

But jkph00's statement has no context except a possibly incorrect Esperanto translation. Without more context, or explanation, it does not make sense.

With more information, it would be possible to suggest a better wording either in English or Esperanto or both.

That is all I was asking for.

Vestitor (Показать профиль) 19 мая 2017 г., 17:44:56

david_uk:

I am a native speaker, and it does not make sense.

In English an "old friend" means a friend that you have known for a long time. So a "new old friend" becomes nonsense.

Using "old friend" to mean a "friend of advanced years" is a very strange thing to do in English.
In English there is a term used to refer to old unused stock (often decades old) that is now on sale again, mostly to vintage shops (clothes, cars, records etc). The term is 'new old stock'. Is that nonsense?

An old friend can easily be someone you never stopped being friends with, but with whom you lost contact. If you re-acquaint and renew the friendship it's like a new-old friend.

Referring to a friend of advanced years as: 'My old friend' is not strange at all.

I agree, the OP needs to clarify the exact meaning. However I always believe that a person can say anything they want so long as they have an answer when the statement is queried. This business of having ready-made exact translations of everything is the real nonsense.

Mustelvulpo (Показать профиль) 19 мая 2017 г., 19:42:20

In English there is a term used to refer to old unused stock (often decades old) that is now on sale again, mostly to vintage shops (clothes, cars, records etc). The term is 'new old stock'. Is that nonsense?

I've heard this term. It can also refer to items that are many years old but have never been removed from their original packaging. Perhaps "kvazaŭ nova" or "malnova sed neniam uzata" would accurately express this idea. "Kvazaŭ nova" might also work to describe a friend from long ago with whom you lost touch but recently re-established contact.

david_uk (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2017 г., 10:13:20

The term is 'new old stock'. Is that nonsense?
In isolation yes, but in context you can work out the meaning. And you have provided the context.

"new old stock" only works as a shorthand way of saying something like
old unused stock that is now on sale again
"old friend" has a well established meaning in English, and "new old friend" is not established as being a shorthard way of saying any other phrase.

I would say "kvazaŭ nova" or "malnova sed neniam uzata" are better phrases to use in Esperanto. "novaj malnovaj" would just be confusing.

sergejm (Показать профиль) 22 мая 2017 г., 16:47:36

Новое это давно забытое старое
The new is the long-forgotten old
La nova estas la longe forgesita malnova

Gosio (Показать профиль) 23 мая 2017 г., 12:58:23

When I first read this (as a native English speaker) I took it to mean that he had some "old friends" (i.e. friends that he knows intimately and speak candidly with, friends who can be relied upon in a time of crisis, friends who would tell him if he was doing something stupid) but he moved to a new city and no longer had those "old friends" so he wants to make some new ones.

This situation is familiar to me, it is frustrating trying to find new "old friends". Rarely it has happened that I have made such a friend - after only a few weeks I already felt that he was an "old friend".

If this is the true intention of the sentence, I would write "close friends" or "good friends" instead.

jkph00 (Показать профиль) 27 мая 2017 г., 1:14:09

sergejm:Estas malfacile reamikiĝi kun novaj malnovaj amikoj.
Re- marks repetition of the action
-igi and -iĝi in the same word never or rare meet.
-iĝi is not transive, so you must use preposition instead of accusative.
Thank you! That explains a lot to me.

jkph00 (Показать профиль) 27 мая 2017 г., 1:23:16

Vestitor:
david_uk:

I am a native speaker, and it does not make sense.

In English an "old friend" means a friend that you have known for a long time. So a "new old friend" becomes nonsense.

...

I agree, the OP needs to clarify the exact meaning. However I always believe that a person can say anything they want so long as they have an answer when the statement is queried. This business of having ready-made exact translations of everything is the real nonsense.
Forgive me for not having provided adequate context. Say when I was young, I met and went to school with people who became very good friends. We worked in the same places, shared many experiences. Now many years later, say I have moved to a place where I know no one. Say I deeply miss those friends of my youth and of many years who now live far away. Say I pine to make friends of that quality. It would be very difficult to make new "old friends."

Does that help clarify what I am seeking?

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