글: 6
언어: English
jmatty2000 (프로필 보기) 2017년 9월 7일 오후 1:49:49
Hi
I've translated the joke below which is an extract from the Humuro level 1 article which I found within the Media tab on lernu.net.
I was having a bit of trouble translating the first sentence more accurately. if anyone can help / see where I'm going wrong please, I'd be grateful.
The part in bold below is what I understand although I'm a bit shaky especially when it comes to using -igi and the trans word.
Ĉe rekrutigo
Junulo ne volas soldatiĝi, pro tio ĉe rekrutigo li transdonas al la kuracisto ne sian urinon, sed tiun de sia amikino, kiu havas diabeton.
A young person doesn't want to be a soldier, therefore this recruit didn't give the doctor his own urine, but his friends who has diabetes.
Post unu horo, kiam la analizo estas preta, la kuracisto diras al li:
"Mi havas por vi kaj bonan kaj malbonan sciigojn. La malbona estas, ke vi havas diabeton."
"Kaj kio estas la bona?"
"Vi estas graveda."
Many thanks to anyone who can make the first sentence translation better or more accurate please.
Cheers
Matio.
I've translated the joke below which is an extract from the Humuro level 1 article which I found within the Media tab on lernu.net.
I was having a bit of trouble translating the first sentence more accurately. if anyone can help / see where I'm going wrong please, I'd be grateful.
The part in bold below is what I understand although I'm a bit shaky especially when it comes to using -igi and the trans word.
Ĉe rekrutigo
Junulo ne volas soldatiĝi, pro tio ĉe rekrutigo li transdonas al la kuracisto ne sian urinon, sed tiun de sia amikino, kiu havas diabeton.
A young person doesn't want to be a soldier, therefore this recruit didn't give the doctor his own urine, but his friends who has diabetes.
Post unu horo, kiam la analizo estas preta, la kuracisto diras al li:
"Mi havas por vi kaj bonan kaj malbonan sciigojn. La malbona estas, ke vi havas diabeton."
"Kaj kio estas la bona?"
"Vi estas graveda."
Many thanks to anyone who can make the first sentence translation better or more accurate please.
Cheers
Matio.
nornen (프로필 보기) 2017년 9월 7일 오후 5:39:03
jmatty2000:rekrut-o is a recruit.
Ĉe rekrutigo
Junulo ne volas soldatiĝi, pro tio ĉe rekrutigo li transdonas al la kuracisto ne sian urinon, sed tiun de sia amikino, kiu havas diabeton.
A young person doesn't want to be a soldier, therefore this recruit didn't give the doctor his own urine, but his friends who has diabetes.
rekrut-ig-o is the act of turning somebody into a recruit = recruitment = draught.
trans-don-i means "hand something over to someone", lit: "give over".
soldat-o is a soldier.
sodat-iĝ-i means "to become a soldier"
Literally: A young person does not want to become a soldier, therefore at the recruitment he gives to the doctor not his urine, but his girlfriend's (not necessarily his girlfriend, girlfriend; just any female friend of his), who has diabetes.
Meaning: A young man is looking for a way to evade recruitment and during his medical he gives the GP a sample of his diabetic girlfriend's urine instead of his own.
About -ig- and -iĝ- and -i- and -o-
soldat-o: soldier
soldat-i: be a soldier, behave like a soldier
soldat-ig-o: the act of turning somebody into a soldier = recruitment = enlistment
soldat-ig-i: turn somebody into a soldier = recruit someone
soldat-iĝ-o: the act of becoming (onself) a soldier = recruitment = enlistment
soldat-iĝ-i = become a soldier = enlist (oneself) = enroll (oneself)
La registaro intencis soldatigi min, tamen mi ne volis soldatiĝi, pro tio mi forkuris kaj malebligis ilian soldatigon kaj mian soldatiĝon.
jmatty2000 (프로필 보기) 2017년 9월 8일 오전 7:45:54
Hi Nonren
That probably covers it completely, thanks fo much
Would you know or how to find out which chapter -iĝ- and -ig- are covered in the the lernu.net course please. I'm about to start chapter 8 in my journey to learn Esperanto more
Cheers
Matio
That probably covers it completely, thanks fo much
Would you know or how to find out which chapter -iĝ- and -ig- are covered in the the lernu.net course please. I'm about to start chapter 8 in my journey to learn Esperanto more
Cheers
Matio
nornen (프로필 보기) 2017년 9월 8일 오후 10:56:59
I don't know where to find this topic in the lernu course, but you might want to consult the PMEG (Plena Manlibro de Esperanta Gramatiko) here. This will be the only grammar you will ever need.
A short summary on -ig- and -iĝ-.
The derivational morpheme ig
The morpheme -ig- is used to create causative verb. A causative verb is a transitive verb whose meaning is "cause something/somebody to do/be something." English knows causatives, too:
eat / feed: Feed is the causative of eat, meaning "cause someone to eat"
sit / set: Set is the causative of sit, meaning "cause something to sit"
rise / raise: Raise is the causative of rise, meaning "cause something to rise"
lie / lay: Lay is the causative of lie, meaning "cause something to lie"
The problem in English is that most causatives are not marked, for instance "run" can be an intransitive verb (I run every day) and also a causative verb (I run the horse past the barn). In Esperanto all derived causatives are marked with -ig-, however, in order to make things a bit more complicated, there are also semantic causatives, i.e. verbs with per se have a causative meaning (see below) and those aren't marked.
When applied to a verb, it means "cause someone/something do something".
Mi manĝas pomon. = I eat an apple.
Mi manĝigas mian hundon. = I cause my dog to eat. = I feed my dog.
Mi kuras. = I run.
Mi kurigas la ĉevalon preter la domo. = I cause the horse to run past the house. = I run the horse past the house.
When applied to a substantive noun, it means "cause someone/something to be something":
viro = man
Mi virigis lin. = I caused him to be a man. = I made him a man.
esperantisto = esperantist
Li esperantistigis min. = He caused me to be an esperantist. = He made me an esperantist.
When appled to a adjective noun, it means "cause someone/something to have a quality / to be in a state":
ruĝa = red
La suno ruĝigas min. = The sun causes me to be red. = The sun reddens me.
maljuna = old
La tempo maljunigas nin. = Time causes us to be(come) old.
The derivational morpheme iĝ
This morpheme iĝ is used to derive intransitive verbs, whose meaning is something along the line of "become / enter a state / acquire a quality".
When applied to a noun, it means "become something/someone":
viro = man
Mi neniam viriĝos. = I will never become a man.
stulta = stupid
Ni ĉiuj stultiĝas. = We are all becoming stupid.
ruĝa = red
La suno ruĝiĝas. = The sun is reddening.
When applied to a transitive verb, it forms something like a pseudo-passive, or impersonal passive. The object of the original transitive verb becomes the subject of the iĝ-verb and the original subject is lost:
En Gvatemalo, oni parolas majaajn lingvojn. = In Guatemala one speaks Mayan languages.
En Gvatemalo majaaj lingvoj paroliĝas. = In Guatemala Mayan languages are spoken.
This is important with verbs that are semantic causatives:
Mi rulas ŝtonon. = I roll a stone. (ruli is transitive)
La ŝtono ruliĝas. = The stone is rolling.
La Ruliĝantaj Ŝtonoj. = The Rolling Stones.
With intransitive verbs, it has an inchoative meaning, i.e. it means that the action/state is starting. This use is a bit strange and I would advise to use ek- instead of -iĝ- in these cases or no morpheme at all:
?Sidiĝu! = Sit down. (akward grammar)
Eksidu! = Sit down. (too much information)
Sidu! = Sit down. (100% fine)
sidi doesn't refer to the act of lowering one's derriere, but the state of being seated. Mi sidis = I was sitting = I was seated. Mi eksidis = I sat down.
I hope this helped.
A short summary on -ig- and -iĝ-.
The derivational morpheme ig
The morpheme -ig- is used to create causative verb. A causative verb is a transitive verb whose meaning is "cause something/somebody to do/be something." English knows causatives, too:
eat / feed: Feed is the causative of eat, meaning "cause someone to eat"
sit / set: Set is the causative of sit, meaning "cause something to sit"
rise / raise: Raise is the causative of rise, meaning "cause something to rise"
lie / lay: Lay is the causative of lie, meaning "cause something to lie"
The problem in English is that most causatives are not marked, for instance "run" can be an intransitive verb (I run every day) and also a causative verb (I run the horse past the barn). In Esperanto all derived causatives are marked with -ig-, however, in order to make things a bit more complicated, there are also semantic causatives, i.e. verbs with per se have a causative meaning (see below) and those aren't marked.
When applied to a verb, it means "cause someone/something do something".
Mi manĝas pomon. = I eat an apple.
Mi manĝigas mian hundon. = I cause my dog to eat. = I feed my dog.
Mi kuras. = I run.
Mi kurigas la ĉevalon preter la domo. = I cause the horse to run past the house. = I run the horse past the house.
When applied to a substantive noun, it means "cause someone/something to be something":
viro = man
Mi virigis lin. = I caused him to be a man. = I made him a man.
esperantisto = esperantist
Li esperantistigis min. = He caused me to be an esperantist. = He made me an esperantist.
When appled to a adjective noun, it means "cause someone/something to have a quality / to be in a state":
ruĝa = red
La suno ruĝigas min. = The sun causes me to be red. = The sun reddens me.
maljuna = old
La tempo maljunigas nin. = Time causes us to be(come) old.
The derivational morpheme iĝ
This morpheme iĝ is used to derive intransitive verbs, whose meaning is something along the line of "become / enter a state / acquire a quality".
When applied to a noun, it means "become something/someone":
viro = man
Mi neniam viriĝos. = I will never become a man.
stulta = stupid
Ni ĉiuj stultiĝas. = We are all becoming stupid.
ruĝa = red
La suno ruĝiĝas. = The sun is reddening.
When applied to a transitive verb, it forms something like a pseudo-passive, or impersonal passive. The object of the original transitive verb becomes the subject of the iĝ-verb and the original subject is lost:
En Gvatemalo, oni parolas majaajn lingvojn. = In Guatemala one speaks Mayan languages.
En Gvatemalo majaaj lingvoj paroliĝas. = In Guatemala Mayan languages are spoken.
This is important with verbs that are semantic causatives:
Mi rulas ŝtonon. = I roll a stone. (ruli is transitive)
La ŝtono ruliĝas. = The stone is rolling.
La Ruliĝantaj Ŝtonoj. = The Rolling Stones.
With intransitive verbs, it has an inchoative meaning, i.e. it means that the action/state is starting. This use is a bit strange and I would advise to use ek- instead of -iĝ- in these cases or no morpheme at all:
?Sidiĝu! = Sit down. (akward grammar)
Eksidu! = Sit down. (too much information)
Sidu! = Sit down. (100% fine)
sidi doesn't refer to the act of lowering one's derriere, but the state of being seated. Mi sidis = I was sitting = I was seated. Mi eksidis = I sat down.
I hope this helped.