Beiträge: 10
Sprache: English
Ljubog (Profil anzeigen) 1. Oktober 2017 20:29:07
I wander over lyrics of this very good song by Martin kaj la Talpoj, Superbazaro:
Sed vi venas al mi kvazaŭ estus mi superbazaro (but you come to me as if i am a supermarket)
Kion vi volas de mi, kion vi volas de mi (what you want from me)
Mi ofertu ĝin tuj
Kaj vi prenas de mi kvazaŭ estus elekto de varoj (and you take from me as if i am a selection of products)
Kion vi volas de mi, kion vi volas de mi
Mi provizu vin tuj
So what does ofertu and provizu mean here? I should offer it right away? Or let me offer it right away? Or is it a poetic license to not put "ke", so it is "vi volas de mi ke mi ofertu gxin tuj" - you want me to offer it right away?
Dankon čiuj!
NoordZee (Profil anzeigen) 2. Oktober 2017 06:54:37
Ljubog (Profil anzeigen) 2. Oktober 2017 14:17:12
In duolingo course imperative in first person singular (mi x-u) is both "let me" (my free will suggestion), and "I should" (my duty).
So, what does one express by using imperative in first person singular (mi x-u) in general and then particularly in case of this song?
Dankon!
Roch (Profil anzeigen) 2. Oktober 2017 16:26:26
NoordZee (Profil anzeigen) 2. Oktober 2017 22:42:59
Ljubog (Profil anzeigen) 2. Oktober 2017 23:20:15
If I complicate too much, if "mi x-u" is simply "let me x", than Duolingo shouldn't allow "I should offer" as correct. But I'm not a native english speaker.
If there is no clear answer what is the meaning of imperative in first person singular, than we will never know if the "mi" in the song is just stating (protesting) how "you" is nonchalant in demanding, or is "mi" an accommodating person, perhaps in love, but seen only as a friend, or "you" is just using him for occasional sex with some frivolous chat before and after, not caring for deeper emotions...
This ambiguity seems to me like a case of language (especially constructed one) allowing you grammatical forms that you can use but there is no real thing (idea) to express with that form. But as I am a komencanto, I hoped experienced speakers will just tell me "It's just let me offer", or "No, he just omitted ke".
Maybe the "mi" in the song doesn't know himself is he protesting or surrendering, and that's why the poet used this form in such ambiguous manner. OK, that would make the lyrics very good.
But I still don't understand clearly what idea is expressed by saying "mi x-u".
Ljubog (Profil anzeigen) 2. Oktober 2017 23:39:13
So he is a supermarket!
![ridulo.gif](/images/smileys/ridulo.gif)
NoordZee (Profil anzeigen) 2. Oktober 2017 23:57:06
He seems to intimate that 'she' is taking advantage of him and keeps on taking and taking. I think that we are agreed that it could never be a command as shown in the verse above. The suggestion seems to be that he feels just about obliged to give her things. (From the supermarket shelves
![ridulo.gif](/images/smileys/ridulo.gif)
EldanarLambetur (Profil anzeigen) 3. Oktober 2017 13:02:10
Check out this page: u-mood.
The usage you're seeing here, probably corresponds to the "U-Moon in Indirect Commands" section.
I would agree that "Let me..." is a good translation here.
In some contexts, it certainly seems to equate to "should". I've seen people prefer it to the "devus" should construction. I would say that the "-us" general conditional construction is more of a "would" than a "should".
Ljubog (Profil anzeigen) 3. Oktober 2017 14:43:12
Whoever called this a "mood" was very perceptive, since it is really fluid like a mood.
![ridulo.gif](/images/smileys/ridulo.gif)
I wander to what extent is this wide usage Zamenhof's design, and to what extent it spread by the direct translations by the early esperanto community from their first languages.
Sed, mi nun revenu lerni komencantajn nivelojn! Unuajn aferojn unue!
![ridulo.gif](/images/smileys/ridulo.gif)
Filipo estas studento...