Berichten: 3
Taal: English
antvest (Profiel tonen) 6 september 2018 09:15:26
In lesson 5, starting with section 7 there are multiple exercises where one has to build sentences with possesive pronouns,
e.g.
li + gitaro => Tio estas lia gitaro.
For the plural questions, e.g. li + ideoj, it seems the correct answer is "Tio estas liaj ideoj."
I expected "tio" to have a plural ending, i.e. "tioj", like "*Those* are his ideas" in english.
Doesn't tioj exist?
What is tio, grammatically speaking? It seems like a "demonstrative pronoun" but it isn't listed as a pronoun in the grammar section.
e.g.
li + gitaro => Tio estas lia gitaro.
For the plural questions, e.g. li + ideoj, it seems the correct answer is "Tio estas liaj ideoj."
I expected "tio" to have a plural ending, i.e. "tioj", like "*Those* are his ideas" in english.
Doesn't tioj exist?
What is tio, grammatically speaking? It seems like a "demonstrative pronoun" but it isn't listed as a pronoun in the grammar section.
Metsis (Profiel tonen) 6 september 2018 10:41:50
It isn't listed as a pronoun, because...
The short answer is, that the -o suffix is always in singular(*).
For a longer answer let me explain from the beginning.
You have a bunch of prefixes (i-, ti-, ki-, ĉi and neni-), a bunch of suffixes (-o, -u, -a, -es, -e, -en, -el, -om, -al and -om) and you can combine any prefix with any suffix. The combinations are called la korelativoj (correlatives) or la tabelvortoj, because they form a nice table. Some of them are demonstrative pronouns in some languages, some particles, some... It all varies from one language to another.
As a side-note, one might argue, that -en shouldn't be part in the list above, since it is the accusative form of the ending -e. -e denotes a location and -en movement towards that location (cf. the preposition "en", esti en la ĉambro, iri en la ĉambron). I have found it easier to remember, when you list it among the others. YMMV.
The endings -u and -a can take both the plural -j and the accusative -n endings or both. These can be understood as demonstrative pronouns in many languages, and they require a main word, which they quantify or describe (individuo, individua aĵo, individua afero).
*: I vaguely remember having read about a case in discussion of sets of sets, where you can (must?) use forms like tioj, but it was on so high level, that I didn't understand it.
The short answer is, that the -o suffix is always in singular(*).
For a longer answer let me explain from the beginning.
You have a bunch of prefixes (i-, ti-, ki-, ĉi and neni-), a bunch of suffixes (-o, -u, -a, -es, -e, -en, -el, -om, -al and -om) and you can combine any prefix with any suffix. The combinations are called la korelativoj (correlatives) or la tabelvortoj, because they form a nice table. Some of them are demonstrative pronouns in some languages, some particles, some... It all varies from one language to another.
As a side-note, one might argue, that -en shouldn't be part in the list above, since it is the accusative form of the ending -e. -e denotes a location and -en movement towards that location (cf. the preposition "en", esti en la ĉambro, iri en la ĉambron). I have found it easier to remember, when you list it among the others. YMMV.
The endings -u and -a can take both the plural -j and the accusative -n endings or both. These can be understood as demonstrative pronouns in many languages, and they require a main word, which they quantify or describe (individuo, individua aĵo, individua afero).
- ĉi tiu domo : this house
- ĉi tiuj domoj : these houses
- tiu domo : that house
- tiuj domoj : those houses
- ĉi tia domo : this kind of house
- ĉi tiaj domoj : these kinds of houses
- tia domo : that kind of house
- tiaj domoj : those kinds of houses
- ...
- What is there? : Kio estas tie? (cf. English, you don't ask: What are there?)
*: I vaguely remember having read about a case in discussion of sets of sets, where you can (must?) use forms like tioj, but it was on so high level, that I didn't understand it.
sudanglo (Profiel tonen) 6 september 2018 13:48:27
Tio (that thing) is abstract, tiu (that thing) is concrete.
The thing is I haven't got the money, I haven't got the time, and I don't want to do it anyway.
You wouldn't say the things are ... However Are these your things?
The thing is I haven't got the money, I haven't got the time, and I don't want to do it anyway.
You wouldn't say the things are ... However Are these your things?