Повідомлення: 11
Мова: English
Frakseno (Переглянути профіль) 12 червня 2008 р. 17:46:29
Maybe this is a common occurrence, maybe not, but I thought I’d run it up the flagpole anyway…
I am feeling discouraged in my language learning. I feel as though I have hit some sort of plateau and that my learning has stalled.
My e-o studies have been interesting and fun. I have conversed with some interesting folks and have learned a lot. My facility with the language has progressed regularly, though not remarkably. Admittedly, I could be studying harder and applying myself more. But this is a hobby and I don’t want it to turn into a chore.
I have attended a local e-o group’s meetings and got my mind blown by spending a couple of hours immersed in almost 100% Esperanto conversation. I was encouraged by the degree to which I could hold my own in this environment, but also motivated to work harder so that I could do better next time. I also play World of Warcraft and am a member of (what we think to be) WoW’s first Esperanto-language guild. This is a fun way for me to mix two of my leisure time pursuits.
But I have been discouraged lately. I have gotten stuck on some not terribly difficult points and feel as though, no matter how much I reinforce the lessons, nothing is “sticking” in my brain and the next time I encounter the same questions, I have forgotten what I studied. Again.
When I listen to songs or podcasts, I am frustrated with how much work it is just to keep up, and I still miss so much of what is said. The same with reading articles or stories. Just disheartening.
I am avoiding my WoW guild and my conversation group.
Has anyone else gone through this? Does it go away? Is the solution to just keep trudging on?
Miland (Переглянути профіль) 12 червня 2008 р. 18:28:07
Hope this helps.
Filu (Переглянути профіль) 12 червня 2008 р. 19:40:26
But over the years, I read quite a few advices, comments and experiences from jugglers of various levels, and I am now quite convinced that this story about not improving for a long while, being stuck at a certain level, reaching a plateau and so on, is mostly only a perception of your own mind who is expecting the improvement to occur in certain areas and doesn't notice where the improvement is actually occuring for it doesn't pay attention to that area.
As an example, presume I have been working all summer on a new five ball pattern. In May, I can't do it at all. In June, I can sorta manage 10-20 catches of it. In July, I made it up to 150 and couldn't before mid-September beat this score, and even then, I only brought it up to 165.
What a racket!!! I haven't been improving for something like 2 months!!!
Well, in fact, if I had paid a closer look to what went on, I could have realized that despite running 150 catches in July, I was still running a lot of totally failing runs, where the first ball to be caught was dropped. And even if we were to drop these bad runs, my average run would have been somewhere around 20 to 30. Plus, the pattern was rather shaky.
In August, my average run was now closer to 35-40 catches and only in every 10th or 15th run I would drop really early. The pattern was also getting more stable, with less way-off throws. But... I was working like crazy and I was quite tired during that month. I didn't get so much practice and I was usually getting tired when my runs were reaching 100-120, triggering because of that some drop or bad toss.
As you can see, I had my mind focused on one parametre only, and concluded from it that I wasn't improving. The truth was nevertheless somewhere else... August actually saw an improvement of my skills.
So I would recommend you not to worry too much: do what you can and enjoy doing it.
richardhall (Переглянути профіль) 12 червня 2008 р. 22:21:38
Filu:So I would recommend you not to worry too much: do what you can and enjoy doing it.That sounds like good advice!
erinja (Переглянути профіль) 13 червня 2008 р. 00:56:02
Frakseno:When I listen to songs or podcasts, I am frustrated with how much work it is just to keep up, and I still miss so much of what is said. The same with reading articles or stories. Just disheartening.Maybe you need a break. Not a break in terms of stopping your studies, but just don't be so hard on yourself. Keep working, as Filu has suggested, but also keep yourself focused on the "fun" aspect. Don't try to understand every single word in a song; print out lyrics and sing along with the song (cheesy but fun!). In addition, since you have already read the lyrics, you know what you are listening for, and it gets easier for your ear to pick it up. Your time won't be wasted, in terms of your studies. There are fun, non-frustrating things you can do in Esperanto that will improve your ability without making you feel like a failure. Maybe try some of the games here at lernu. Watch an old Russian film online with Esperanto subtitles (I liked "La skarlata floro"). Do something that gives a big payoff for little effort to give you a boost.
EL_NEBULOSO (Переглянути профіль) 13 червня 2008 р. 05:15:38
this kind of "plateau phase" happens in every kind of mental and physical training/learning and I also have this kind of thing at work.
In sport and also language learning (and many other things) it is very easy to get from the beginner to the intermediate level. However, to reach a higher level might actually be very tough and in case you don't have enough time for your studies/training you might have the feeling the your skills even decrease.
That's exactly the time when you should try to continue your way and sooner or later you will get back the feeling of improving your skills.
Some people try all kinds of sports, language learning (and many other things) but the never reach a high level of proficiency because once it gets difficult, they try something else (to once again have the feeling of strong improvement at the beginning).
I remember our sports teacher telling us, that when youtry to run 100 m really fast (we were 14-15 years old) after approximately 2/3 of the distance, it becomes most difficult and that this is exactly the moment, when one has to try hardest to reach a good time.
Gerald
Frakseno (Переглянути профіль) 13 червня 2008 р. 17:47:56
I needed to hear this. It is true that my success at the beginning was very exciting and fun.
Once that progress slows, it is easy to feel as though one has become mentally dull or overly forgetful.
Filu (Переглянути профіль) 13 червня 2008 р. 19:51:17
Frakseno:Thanks for the encouraging words, everyone.It is true that the changes are quite noticable at the beginning of something... between end of week 1 and end of week 2, you can possibly double or triple your knowledge about Esperanto.
I needed to hear this. It is true that my success at the beginning was very exciting and fun.
Once that progress slows, it is easy to feel as though one has become mentally dull or overly forgetful.
Doubling the skills becomes increasingly long as time passes by, though, which can possibly mislead people into the perception of a slowing down of the learning process, even if the incrementing is still around the same.
Don't you think you are getting quicker to realize things like 'mi amas ŝi' or 'mi kanti bela' are wrong? or that the mouse is being eaten in 'muson manĝas la kato'? I know when I first started, it was taking me a bit (say half a second to a second) to realize these sorts of things, while now it is pretty much instantaneous...
Samideane
Lunombrulino (Переглянути профіль) 13 червня 2008 р. 23:07:41
I mentioned this to the other's in the group, and they commented, "yes, we've noticed that your skills have improved."
So now that we are more advanced speakers, we should take the time to point out how well beginners are progressing. We can see the improvement because we don't see them every day, but they can't. Some encouragement from advanced speakers could go a long ways towards counteracting the discouraging aspect of the plateau.
richardhall (Переглянути профіль) 13 червня 2008 р. 23:15:04
Lunombrulino:Some encouragement from advanced speakers could go a long ways towards counteracting the discouraging aspect of the plateau.We should never underestimate the power of encouragement.