alexbeard:honestly who would want to change their last name? thats like ur heritage.

I feel the same way as you, but if you think about it in another way, lots of people feel differently than we do. For example, have you asked your mom this question? If she is like most American women, presumably she changed her name when she married your dad.

This is why I personally do not plan to change my name, whenever I get married. To me it is a nullification of your own identity and history, losing yourself into someone else's family, and saying that you no longer count except as an extension of that person. And don't even get me started on addressing married women as something like "Mrs. John Smith". I feel like the US has remained in the dark ages as far as names are concerned.

ah thats true
but somehow (in a marraige) they have to have the same last name

and yes being something like mrs smith johnson would be really stupid. but ive never heard someone call someone that around here

I don't see a reason why a married couple should have to have the same last name. There are plenty of married couples that don't have the same last name.

Second - if you believe that a married couple should have the same last name, are you willing to give up your name and take your wife's name? And if not then why not? And if you aren't willing to take her name, why should she be expected to take your name?

well if my wife made a big deal about it i wouldn't care and i would change it

but honestly its just normal for the wife to take the husband's name. if a woman really loved me and was like me she would understand.

but if it really really bugged her i would be fine with switching

alexbeard:but honestly its just normal for the wife to take the husband's name. if a woman really loved me and was like me she would understand.

Why is it "just normal"? And it seems cruel to bring up this "If she really loved me she would understand" thing. What makes it right that you have this expectation of her, when, as you admit, your name is your heritage. What makes it "just normal" for your wife to take your name, but strange for Sonja to choose a new name? (a new name that she chooses herself, whatever name she wants, whereas your wife is pretty much stuck with whatever name you have, if you succeed in pressuring her to take your name)

no i wouldn't pressure her
and its normal because its what everyone else does

Normal: (n)
1. Conforming with, adhering to, or constituting a norm, standard, pattern, level, or type; typical: normal room temperature; one's normal weight; normal diplomatic relations.

erinja:

alexbeard:but honestly its just normal for the wife to take the husband's name. if a woman really loved me and was like me she would understand.

Why is it "just normal"? And it seems cruel to bring up this "If she really loved me she would understand" thing.

It is normal, these days at least, just because that is what people do in general.

In bygone years, a woman married a man and she moved to where he was probably primarily because that is where he had work and became part of his family. The term "Mrs BlahSurname" is short for "Mistress of BlahSurname (the man)". That is why married women are (archaically) but never the less correctly (in a technical sense) called "Mrs John Smith".

If you find it insulting, Erinja - well fair enough - but, these days, you don't have to follow custom. Indeed years ago some people didn't.

I feel insulted by Esperanto that I can't spell my surname in Esperanto correctly because it starts with a "W". Such is life - I either spell it with a "W" and risk someone mispronouncing it - or I throw out my heritage - guess which I choose.

Nick

nw2394:That is why married women are (archaically) but never the less correctly (in a technical sense) called "Mrs John Smith".

Not here. It would sound ridiculous to us. Perhaps our bygone years were quite weird, though...

When I first heard an English speaking person announcing a "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith", I honestly thought that he slipped and made a mistake somewhere. I can understand a "Mr. and Mrs. Smith", since they share the same family name, which is, in a way, the name of the house. I can't see any purpose for the presence of the name of the husband in such a form.

I feel insulted by Esperanto that I can't spell my surname in Esperanto correctly because it starts with a "W".

I don't know your family name, but - unless I'm missing something - the english w generally sounds as ŭ, so if you want to use Esperanto, try with a ŭ. Technically an ŭ shouldn't be by itself, but if your purpose is to communicate the correct pronunciation, ŭ is better than v.

This is the real issue, anyway. If you want other people to know how your family name looks like when written, then keep it as is. If you want other people (possibly not English speaking) to know how to pronounce it correctly, it would be best to transliterate it to a more phonetical version, since the English norm for spelling is quite complicated and it's fair to assume that within the Esperanto community not everyone is familiar with it. There are good chances that Esperanto won't be good enough anyway, because its vocalic sounds are few and clear, much unlike English. You could try IPA. Hopefully it won't insult you!

nw2394:It is normal, these days at least, just because that is what people do in general.

It depends very much on culture. China is not a country known for great women's rights, but among the Chinese, it has never been the custom for a woman to take her husband's name. The kids get the husband's name (as you'd expect) but the wife retains her own name.

If you find it insulting, Erinja - well fair enough - but, these days, you don't have to follow custom. Indeed years ago some people didn't.

Fair enough that it's the custom, and it's correct that I don't have to follow it. I just think it's a bit rich to imply that another person is throwing out their heritage by changing their surname, yet practically in the same breath, proclaim that you would expect your wife to do this very thing, simply to take your surname when they got married.

I feel insulted by Esperanto that I can't spell my surname in Esperanto correctly because it starts with a "W".

I don't really see this as a big problem. As mnlg says, you can spell it with the letter Ŭ if you want people to pronounce it correctly. I have to confess, I'm sorry that people get your name wrong, but I don't feel super sympathetic. I am 27 years old, and I have grown up having my name mispronounced almost every time someone tries to say it. My name is not even that hard, every letter is pronounced, and it is perfectly phonetic in Esperanto. I am used to it at this point, and if I hear someone start out "P...Pi...", I assume they are referring to me. So try to cut people a little slack, don't take it personally, and it isn't the end of the world.

Also, rest assured that people with other foreign names will have their names mispronounced just as often as yours is. Famous Esperanto writer Kalocsay Kálmán - are you pronouncing the cs as a ĉ? Because that's what it is.

erinja:

nw2394:It is normal, these days at least, just because that is what people do in general.

It depends very much on culture. China is not a country known for great women's rights, but among the Chinese, it has never been the custom for a woman to take her husband's name. The kids get the husband's name (as you'd expect) but the wife retains her own name.

Why is it normal for children to take their father's surname? I think I am correct in saying that in Iceland, boys are effectively called "John son of Peter" and girls are "Mary daughter of Amy". No actual surnames - but reference to the parent of the same gender.

In Holland for example, people didn't have surnames back in history - then the French imposed surnames on them - so the Dutch took the mickey out of the French by saying their surname was things like "van den Bergh" (of the mountains - but there are no mountains in the Netherlands worth talking of). So surnames was not a heritage or cultural thing at all at that time and place.

erinja:

If you find it insulting, Erinja - well fair enough - but, these days, you don't have to follow custom. Indeed years ago some people didn't.

Fair enough that it's the custom, and it's correct that I don't have to follow it. I just think it's a bit rich to imply that another person is throwing out their heritage by changing their surname, yet practically in the same breath, proclaim that you would expect your wife to do this very thing, simply to take your surname when they got married.

Well, I didn't proclaim that - don't blame me - its just the way things tend to be. I actually asked my wife about this and she actively wanted to have the same surname as me.

erinja:

I feel insulted by Esperanto that I can't spell my surname in Esperanto correctly because it starts with a "W".

I don't really see this as a big problem. As mnlg says, you can spell it with the letter Ŭ if you want people to pronounce it correctly. I have to confess, I'm sorry that people get your name wrong, but I don't feel super sympathetic. I am 27 years old, and I have grown up having my name mispronounced almost every time someone tries to say it. My name is not even that hard, every letter is pronounced, and it is perfectly phonetic in Esperanto. I am used to it at this point, and if I hear someone start out "P...Pi...", I assume they are referring to me. So try to cut people a little slack, don't take it personally, and it isn't the end of the world.

Also, rest assured that people with other foreign names will have their names mispronounced just as often as yours is. Famous Esperanto writer Kalocsay Kálmán - are you pronouncing the cs as a ĉ? Because that's what it is.

Yeah, I can spell it ux. But that is clearly disapproved of. Why did Eo change from Uxato to Vato for Watt, if using Ux at the start of a word is considered OK?