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When to use the accusative and the plural with relative pronouns

Nala_Cat15-ისა და 25 ივნისი, 2019-ის მიერ

შეტყობინებები: 10

ენა: English

Nala_Cat15 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 25 ივნისი, 2019 22:40:22

When is it correct to use the accusative and plurals with relative pronouns?

sergejm (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 26 ივნისი, 2019 04:12:36

"La kato mangas la hundon, kiu (la hundo) manĝis la manĝaĵon" - this means
1. the dog ate the food.
2. the cat eats the dog.
Sometimes there is the doubt, what does the relative pronoun mean - the cat or the dog. In this case, put "(la hundo)" after it.

"La kato mangas la hundon, kiun (la hundon) manĝis la manĝaĵo" - this means
1. the food ate the dog.
2. the cat eats the dog.

Both sentences are strange.

Uze "kiun" if "which" in the second part of the sentence means object.
Uze "kiu" if "which" in the second part of the sentence means subject.
Uze "kiujn" if "which" in the second part of the sentence means some objects.
Uze "kiuj" if "which" in the second part of the sentence means some subjects.

Nala_Cat15 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 26 ივნისი, 2019 04:57:53

Thanks.

Metsis (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 26 ივნისი, 2019 07:33:34

To clarify a little what Sergejm said…

"Kiu" and "kiun" denote singular subject resp. object.
"Kiuj" and "kiujn" denote plural subject resp. object, which you should in most cases understand to be comprehensive, i.e. not "some" but "all":

      Mi ne konis tiujn personojn, kiuj… : I didn't know any of those persons, who…

There is also "kio" and "kion", but these refer to the whole preceding sentence, if used as relative pronoun without "tio" (for all uses of "kio" see PIV):

      Li ridas konstante, kio estas netolerebla : He is laughing all the time, which is intolerable.

(The forms "kioj" and "kiojn" are very rarely used, because "kio" is usually regarded as already encompassing everything. AFAIK there is some use for them in advanced mathematics, e.g. when you talk about sets of sets.)

sergejm (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 26 ივნისი, 2019 08:05:14

Yes, I didn't think about a real example, so I wrote "some" instead of "all".
If you want "some":
"Mi ricevis la monon, kiun mi jam elspezis" - all the money is spent.
"Mi ricevis la monon, iom da kiu mi jam elspezis" some money is spent.
Notu: "iom" don't have an accusative.

Nala_Cat15 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 26 ივნისი, 2019 23:24:19

So can "kio" take a plural?

Metsis (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 27 ივნისი, 2019 07:10:06

Nala_Cat15:So can "kio" take a plural?
The short answer: No, it can't.

The longer answer:
Many say, that it can't for the reason I mentioned, and PIV doesn't know such form. However I'm vaguely remembering having read an article, where it was shown that it can in some very specific cases like in so called supersets in advanced mathematics. In everyday life the answer is "no".

Nala_Cat15 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 ივნისი, 2019 21:56:14

Dankegon

Nala_Cat15 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 15 ივლისი, 2019 23:37:02

Is there a PMEG article that explains this?

Metsis (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 16 ივლისი, 2019 18:48:16

Jes, vidu PMEG-on.

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