Messaggi: 11
Lingua: English
Kantoj14 (Mostra il profilo) 01 ottobre 2019 19:50:27
I figure I could just say "Oh, if I could teleport...", but "if only" sounds more wishful, more dreamy. Is there any way to transfer that connotation over? I don't think "se nur mi povus..." sounds right - it sounds like I'm saying "if I was the only one who could..."
sergejm (Mostra il profilo) 01 ottobre 2019 20:16:15
Kantoj14 (Mostra il profilo) 01 ottobre 2019 20:24:31
Ĉiukaze, dankon denove!
Metsis (Mostra il profilo) 02 ottobre 2019 07:38:53
- Mi malfacile komprenis tion, kion vi diris. : The adverb malfacile describes the verb komprenis.
- Se mi nur povus… : The primitive adverb nur describes the verb povus. Since the imaga modo (us-ending) already denotes an imaginary action, the adverb emphasizes that, so you end up having the same connotation as the English idiom "if only I could…"
In the sentence Vi aĉetis por via filino biciklon there are four places, where you can put nur.
- Nur vi aĉetis por via filino biciklon : only you bought, nobody else
- Vi nur aĉetis por via filino biciklon : you only bought, didn't do anything else (like transporting the bicycle home)
- Vi aĉetis nur por via filino biciklon : you didn't buy a bicycle for any other children
- Vi aĉetis por via filino nur biciklon : you bought only the bicycle and nothing else
Kantoj14 (Mostra il profilo) 02 ottobre 2019 08:37:03
But where 'nur' is placed isn't really the issue that I'm having (I mean that was apparently the solution to the issue, but not why I have trouble understanding the solution). It's really the use of only/nur at all. The phrase "if only" doesn't really make sense to me grammatically. 'Only' implies a lack of other things, like in your examples: "nur vi" excludes everyone except you, "nur aĉetis" excludes actions beyond buying, "nur por via filino" excludes everyone except your daughter, and "nur biciklon" excludes everything except the bicycle. But when we say "if only", we aren't excluding anything else with the statement. When I say, "if only I could teleport", I'm not excluding my ability to walk, I'm not excluding anyone else's ability to teleport - there is nothing I am excluding. What are the alternatives to "could" that are even possible to exclude with this word? Grammatically, using the word only/nur doesn't make sense in this context at all, no matter what language you are speaking. Honestly, that's what's throwing me off. ^.^u
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 02 ottobre 2019 10:42:01
Grammatically, using the word only/nur doesn't make sense in this context at allTamen ne nur la angloj diras 'se nur' por esprimi deziron. Ankaŭ la francoj diras 'si seulement' (laŭ mia kompreno)..
Metsis, whilst not denying that in general by shifting the position of 'nur' one can qualify the exclusion, it seems to me to be overly pedantic to rule out 'Se nur mi estus riĉa' on the grounds that this might mean that you wish you to be the only person with money (nur mi, ne alia).
What does the Tekstaro say about this?
Metsis (Mostra il profilo) 02 ottobre 2019 12:52:02
Well, my teacher just yesterday pointed this out. Wennergren states about nur
PMEG:and gives a lot of examples to prove that point. The only case where I can see him giving any leeway w.r.t. where to put nur, is with verbs like povi, deziri, voli, where nur has an emphasizing meaning oni ne povus pli. I might be wrong, but to my understanding neither the OP's question nor your example carry the same meaning.
Ĝi kutime staras ĝuste antaŭ tio, al kio ĝi rilatas.
sergejm (Mostra il profilo) 02 ottobre 2019 13:28:36
Sed se akcidente falos unu nur
Tiam naŭ boteloj pendos de la mur'
(ktp ĝis nul)
Here nur is at the end
nornen (Mostra il profilo) 02 ottobre 2019 17:22:52
Kantoj14:It's good to know that adverbs usually go before what they modify, thank you. I hadn't considered that.I understand your concern. Although in Spanish it is possible to you "si tan solo" (=if only) for expressing a strong and only hypothetical desire, more often you use the adverb "ojalá" (< arab. إن شاء الله if God wants; God willing) for this use.
But where 'nur' is placed isn't really the issue that I'm having (I mean that was apparently the solution to the issue, but not why I have trouble understanding the solution). It's really the use of only/nur at all. The phrase "if only" doesn't really make sense to me grammatically. 'Only' implies a lack of other things, like in your examples: "nur vi" excludes everyone except you, "nur aĉetis" excludes actions beyond buying, "nur por via filino" excludes everyone except your daughter, and "nur biciklon" excludes everything except the bicycle. But when we say "if only", we aren't excluding anything else with the statement. When I say, "if only I could teleport", I'm not excluding my ability to walk, I'm not excluding anyone else's ability to teleport - there is nothing I am excluding. What are the alternatives to "could" that are even possible to exclude with this word? Grammatically, using the word only/nur doesn't make sense in this context at all, no matter what language you are speaking. Honestly, that's what's throwing me off. ^.^u
If only I could teleport... (I can't, but I would like to)
Ojalá pudiera teletransportarme...
vs
If only I could teleport (only me, not you, not her and not him; if I were the only person who can teleport)
Si solo yo pudiera teletransportarme...
If you can find an adverb in Esperanto that transmits the idea of a strong desire, you can get rid of the "se nur". Maybe "espereble"?
?Espereble mi povus teleporti
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 04 ottobre 2019 12:43:16
And Kantoj14, Esperanto can permit considerable flexibility in the placement of adverbs anyway. Often you have a genuine choice. Li parolas tre laŭte - Li tre laŭte parolas.
Se nur mi havus pli da Spesmiloj! How many Esperantists would understand that to mean just mi and not aliaj? That I want to have more than others have?