Left side
MiMalamasLaAnglan, 2019 m. spalis 14 d.
Žinutės: 42
Kalba: English
MiMalamasLaAnglan (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 14 d. 20:46:25
Mi scivolas, ĉu estas alia maniero por diri "maldekstra".
Dankon.
sergejm (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 14 d. 21:32:02
MiMalamasLaAnglan (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 15 d. 01:46:50
Dankegon!
Ĉu ie interrete troviĝas listo de la mal-vortoj kiel mava, liva, lanta, ktp?
sergejm (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 15 d. 05:03:06
Ĉu estas ie vortaro de sinonimoj kaj antonimoj?
thyrolf (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 15 d. 08:33:50
Tamen mi preferas:
https://uea.org/vikio/Superfluaj_Vortoj
La esenco de Esperanto estas, ke oni povas ĝin rapide lerni. Se vi volas lerni lingvon kun multaj vortoj, provu interlingua-n aŭ eĉ la francan. Lingvo kun tre multaj vortoj estas la araba, laŭ mia scio. Lernu tiun.
MiMalamasLaAnglan (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 15 d. 18:34:36
thyrolf:https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/AntonimoDankegon! Mi lernos tiujn vortojn kaj uzos iujn (sed ne ĉiujn) el ili.
Tamen mi preferas:
https://uea.org/vikio/Superfluaj_Vortoj
La esenco de Esperanto estas, ke oni povas ĝin rapide lerni. Se vi volas lerni lingvon kun multaj vortoj, provu interlingua-n aŭ eĉ la francan. Lingvo kun tre multaj vortoj estas la araba, laŭ mia scio. Lernu tiun.
Demando: Ĉe la Vikipedia paĝo mi vidis vorton "men" (malo de "pli"). Ĉu tio vere estas vorto?
Metsis (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 16 d. 08:00:29
liva
I think, that there are very strong arguments for this. Many people mix left and right already in their native language, let alone in a foreign language. The risk of mixing is greater in Esperanto, because of the forms dekstra and maldekstra are so close to each other. Furthermore in a noisy environment one can have a hard time to hear the difference. This can be fatal ,say, in traffic, where a clear, short word can save someone's life.
So, when giving orders, either in speech or in signs, liva is appropriate. In other cases use the standard maldekstra.
ovri
For same reason many people tend to mix fermi and malfermi. Which one is to open and which to close? Heck, even highly ranked UEA officials get these wrong from time to time (yes, I've personally heard this in an official speech). I myself don't use the word ovri, perhaps it's too French to my taste, but I understand the need; wouldn't his be a good opportunity to loan from somewhere else? Like from Swahili, fungua → fungui, or from Japanese, ake → akei ?
ŭesto
While I can memorize the word oriento (my native language doesn't use an even slightly resembling word), it quite often takes a noticeable moment for me figure out the opposite direction (nope, no help from the native language here either; and yes, I have used the word maloriento a couple of times). Being a western movie fan ŭesto is more automatic.
PS. Did you notice that among superfluaj vortoj is the word superflua itself?
Altebrilas (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 16 d. 08:40:13
budĝeto budxetoPri "maldekstra", mi iam aŭdis, dum internacia renkontiĝo, en la danca aŭ gimnatika parto de la programo : "dekstre! ... malde!", por konservi la nombron da silaboj. Ĉu "live" preferindas?
bufo virrano
Pri "ŭesto", ĉu la esperantistaj buŝoj povas prononci "ŭ" antaŭ konsonanto? Iuj diras, ke ne.
MiMalamasLaAnglan (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 16 d. 15:28:44
Metsis:Although I generally agree, that most of the superfluaj vortoj on UEA's list are indeed superfluaj, I understand, that in some situations some of them are useful. For instanceSwahili is even more confusing that Esperanto about opening and closing. Kufunga means "to open" and kufungua means to close. Isn't there already a word aperti for "to open"? Maybe it's intransitive and that's why aperta means "open" as an adjective.
liva
I think, that there are very strong arguments for this. Many people mix left and right already in their native language, let alone in a foreign language. The risk of mixing is greater in Esperanto, because of the forms dekstra and maldekstra are so close to each other. Furthermore in a noisy environment one can have a hard time to hear the difference. This can be fatal ,say, in traffic, where a clear, short word can save someone's life.
So, when giving orders, either in speech or in signs, liva is appropriate. In other cases use the standard maldekstra.
ovri
For same reason many people tend to mix fermi and malfermi. Which one is to open and which to close? Heck, even highly ranked UEA officials get these wrong from time to time (yes, I've personally heard this in an official speech). I myself don't use the word ovri, perhaps it's too French to my taste, but I understand the need; wouldn't his be a good opportunity to loan from somewhere else? Like from Swahili, fungua → fungui, or from Japanese, ake → akei ?
ŭesto
While I can memorize the word oriento (my native language doesn't use an even slightly resembling word), it quite often takes a noticeable moment for me figure out the opposite direction (nope, no help from the native language here either; and yes, I have used the word maloriento a couple of times). Being a western movie fan ŭesto is more automatic.
PS. Did you notice that among superfluaj vortoj is the word superflua itself?
Doesn't okcidento mean "west"?
Metsis (Rodyti profilį) 2019 m. spalis 16 d. 17:33:59
MiMalamasLaAnglan:Quite possibly you're right about Swahili. I don't know it. One of the arguments against Esperanto is, that its vocabulary is almost exclusively from languages of the European branch of the Indoeuropean languages, and then claim it's international (yes, I'm in that group). However Esperanto changes and one way is by adopting new roots, so there are people, who say that new roots should foremost come from other languages than Euro-IEs. There are plenty to choose from: diverse Chinese, Swahili (the international language of East Africa), diverse Arabic, Japanese, Malay… Each with at least 100 million L2 speakers.
Swahili is even more confusing that Esperanto about opening and closing. Kufunga means "to open" and kufungua means to close. Isn't there already a word aperti for "to open"? Maybe it's intransitive and that's why aperta means "open" as an adjective.
MiMalamasLaAnglan:Doesn't okcidento mean "west"?Yes, it does. I was saying, that it's hard for me even to remember the "easier" word of the pair, oriento. To remember the opposite direction would be hell of lot easier, if it were ŭesto.