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How to say "non-binary sibling" in Esperanto?

od uživatele Jxusteno ze dne 17. prosince 2019

Příspěvky: 8

Jazyk: English

Jxusteno (Ukázat profil) 17. prosince 2019 18:18:49

I know some persons that indentifies themselves as non-binary (neither male, nor female). How can their siblings say "my sibling is non-binary" in Esperanto? "Gefrato" isn't suitable because in the normal Esperanto one use the suffix "ge-" only in plural and "ge-" means "of both sexes" (male and female). This suffix is neither gender-neutral, nor non-binary.

Zam_franca (Ukázat profil) 17. prosince 2019 19:45:17

Neduum-frato

Jxusteno (Ukázat profil) 18. prosince 2019 7:36:01

Zam_franca:Neduum-frato
Thanks.
What do you think about its shortened form - "um-frato"?

Metsis (Ukázat profil) 18. prosince 2019 7:46:57

Although PMEG declares singular ge- to be a reform [read: heretic] , perhaps even kontraŭfundamenta [read: ultra heretic], there are quite many esperantists, who understand the singular use.

Thus you have
  • gefratoj : (trad.) siblings of both sexes
  • gefratoj : (modern) siblings (of whatever sex)
  • gefrato : a sibling (of whatever sex)
I'm in favour of this use, because it allows one to focus on the person and their relation to the rest of the family instead of underlining the person's sex or sexual orientation.

Jxusteno (Ukázat profil) 18. prosince 2019 7:56:16

Metsis:Although PMEG declares singular ge- to be a reform [read: heretic] , perhaps even kontraŭfundamenta [read: ultra heretic], there are quite many esperantists, who understand the singular use.

Thus you have
  • gefratoj : (trad.) siblings of both sexes
  • gefratoj : (modern) siblings (of whatever sex)
  • gefrato : a sibling (of whatever sex)
I'm in favour of this use, because it allows one to focus on the person and their relation to the rest of the family instead of underlining the person's sex or sexual orientation.
The thing is that "ge-" already has definite meaning in the Fundamento: "of both sexes". I want my use of the language to conform to the Fundamento.

Metsis (Ukázat profil) 18. prosince 2019 8:01:49

Jxusteno:The thing is that "ge-" already has definite meaning in the Fundamento: "of both sexes". I want my using of Esperanto to be conforming to the Fundamento.
Not exactly. While plural ge- is defined, there is, AFAIK, no definition for singular ge-. It's more like a complement, as Novtago put in another thread.

robinvdv (Ukázat profil) 18. prosince 2019 15:31:14

You could also use the neologism "fratipo" with the new suffix -ip-.

Metsis:Not exactly. While plural ge- is defined, there is, AFAIK, no definition for singular ge-. It's more like a complement, as Novtago put in another thread.
The prefix "ge-" indicates that the word relates to multiple genders and not just one, this applies to singular and plural nouns and adjectives. PMEG lists the examples "gelernejo" (a school for multiple genders) and "gepatra" (pertaining to parents of different genders). If you reinterpret "ge-" as meaning "of any gender", those words would lose their traditional meaning.

But I do acknowledge that some people do actually use "ge-" in this new meaning. I personally think it would be better to just use new roots for concepts such as "parent" and "sibling", as there are no official Esperanto words yet for those concepts. That seems better than changing the meaning of an official prefix.

Metsis (Ukázat profil) 19. prosince 2019 8:41:06

robinvdv:The prefix "ge-" indicates that the word relates to multiple genders and not just one, this applies to singular and plural nouns and adjectives. PMEG lists the examples "gelernejo" (a school for multiple genders) and "gepatra" (pertaining to parents of different genders). If you reinterpret "ge-" as meaning "of any gender", those words would lose their traditional meaning.
I know PMEG's argumentation. However for the most part such a word as gelernejo is outdated and no longer needed, lernejo is enough. If for some odd reason you need to emphasise, that a school is for all sexes (note, all not both), yes, you can use miksa lernejo.

For adjective use you can make the difference by
  • gepatra decido : a decision by a parent (whatever their sex is)
  • decido de gepatroj : a decision by both parents (whatever their sexes are)
All in all I find this underling of sex by gendered pronouns and plural ge- very alien, so last season.

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