Oni laŭfundamente pruvis ke la pronomo "ri", uzata por priparoli personon sendepende de ties sekso, ne estas kontraŭfundamenta!
od Jxusteno, 13 marca 2020
Wpisy: 86
Język: Esperanto
novatago (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 13:07:00
La Ekzercaro:Unu vidvino havis du filinojn. La pli maljuna estis tiel simila al la patrino per sia karaktero kaj vizaĝo, ke ĉiu, kiu ŝin vidis, povis pensi, ke li vidas la patrinonWhy if it's used with general people, you can't use it for a specific person. No, you aren't right. You are interpreting as you want Zamenhof's words.
Ĝis, Novatago (blogo / 7 + 1)
Jxusteno (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 13:08:18
Jxusteno (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 13:09:18
novatago (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 13:21:02
Jxusteno:ri ne estas iĉo".I don't understand this, I speak Esperanto, not that dialect.
Anyway if I could understand that by my privileged mind, I would say that is logical because they already knew the gender of the specific person. I feel we are talking about different things or you are just telling nonsense.
If you already know the gender you use the right pronoun. If you don't know the gender you use "ĝi" or "li". If you for some reason don't want to use "li", you just use "ĝi" and vice versa. That gives you exactly what you want. If you feel that is insulting, go to lidepla, Esperanto is not for you.
That's Esperanto, just learn it properly.
Jxusteno (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 13:39:52
Se vi ne komprenas kion signifas ri, vi eble povus legi pri ĝia signifo en la Reta Vortato kaj PMEG.
http://www.reta-vortaro.de/revo/art/ri.html
https://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/pronomoj/tria....
La signifon de la vorto iĉo oni povas trovi eĉ en la "Lernu"a vortaro.
https://lernu.net/vortaro
Jxusteno (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 13:45:17
novatago (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 15:05:37
Jxusteno:La pronomo ri ne estas kontraŭfundamenta (vi kredeble komprenus tion, se vi atente legus la blogeron). Oni ne povas diri ĝi pri persono-neinfaneto.That's a lie. Nowhere it's told that. And actually it's told en lingvaj respondoj:
Kiam ni parolas pri homo, ne montrante la sekson, tiam estus
regule uzi la pronomon «ĝi» (kiel ni faras ekzemple kun la
vorto «infano»), kaj se vi tiel agos, vi estos gramatike tute
prava.
Jxusteno:Krom tio, oni ne povas diri li pri persono, pri kiu kaj la parolanto, kaj la alparolato(j) scias ke ri ne estas iĉo.So, use ĝi (but you told a lie again, lingvaj respondoj say the opposite thing). And I still don't understand why I can use li for god and the angels that I know they aren't male beings, and not for people.
In other words. You can't convince me because you are just wrong. I can't convince you because you are soooo wrong. And anyway I could admit that ri it's not against the Fundamento. The problem is that it's no needed and the people who want to introduce it, want to do it because of a whim, now you see it one way and tomorrow it could be insulting for the same people (that kind of things already happened in Spanish and think that many people finds the familiar ci and its versions in other languages as inappropriate in general) and you will want another whim pronoun that "no one can say it's against the Fundamento", and other people will use all this to introduce another useless pronouns. Apart, it's the thing about wanting to introducing it by force, calling intolerant and yelling discrimination to those who don't admit something unneeded and stubbornly making a lobby campaign (not fair play) about it because, since it's useless, nobody would use it. And so on.
One thing is the general dictionary (not Fundamenta) that can be changed as fast as needed and other thing are the pronouns that, as much as possible, should be untouched to facilitate learning and communication.
It's no needed, it helps nothing. You just create a problem of nothing, a discussion that only exists in your head. I'm not using it because Esperanto already has ĝi and li for the same meaning.
Ĝis, Novatago (blogo / 7 + 1)
novatago (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 15:26:32
Jxusteno:Ĉu vi jam aliĝis al la grupo?Yes, of course, I only want spend my days discussing this. XD
End of discussion. For me, I mean.
Zam_franca (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 17:21:37
Zam_franca (Pokaż profil) 13 marca 2020, 17:26:11
Ho ne, la malsameco estas inter "genra indenteco" kaj nun "sekso".
Mi do nun donu iomete mian opinion: debatoj aĉigas la lingvon ĉar ili malstabiligas ĝin. Riistoj parolu Riisme, Esperantistoj parolu Esperante, sed neniu malstabiligu Esperanton per enormaj reformoj!! Malstabileco estas makulo.