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Random questions

PrimeMinisterK-tól, 2020. április 12.

Hozzászólások: 111

Nyelv: Esperanto

PrimeMinisterK (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 5:25:49

So instead of just constantly creating new threads, I thought it might be good to instead of create one thread for all the random questions that come up in my studies.

As always, any help is appreciated.

Here's the first round:

1. I don't really understand the difference between post and poste, and when one should be used instead of the other. They seem to mean the same thing. Both are translated as "after."

2. Likewise, I also get confused by multa and multe. Both are translated as "a lot."

3. And finally, tial and do. I've seen both translated as "therefore." Are they interchangeable.

4. Do most Esperanto speakers actually say "jes" most of the time when they want to answer in the affirmative. Or do they often say "yeah" instead, like English speakers?

5. Does "okay" or something comparable exist in Esperanto?

6. What about "by the way." In English one might say, "Oh, by the way, I ran into our old friend Jim today and it turns out he has the coronavirus." Is there some equivalent in Eo?

7. I have seen "prince" translated as both "reĝido" and "princo"? Are these interchangeable? Why did Eo decide it needs two words for something like prince?

sergejm (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 7:51:00

1. post X = after X; poste = after it (event mentioned before)
Similarly: en X = in X; ene = in it; en X-on = into X; enen = into it
2. multe da X-oj = multaj X-oj = many (of) X-es
3. tial = do (about always), 'tial' is a table word, 'do' is not.
Similarly: ĉi tiam = nun = now
4. 'yeah' isn't in Esperanto. You can say 'tiel' instead of 'jes' in some cases
5. 'okay' is interational word. You can use in Esperanto also (ok, okej). But don't confuse it with ok = 8
6. In your example I would use 'interalie' ≈ between the other
7. 'reĝido' is a son of a king. 'princo' can be, e. g. Russian князь

PrimeMinisterK (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 8:45:32

sergejm:1. post X = after X; poste = after it (event mentioned before)
Similarly: en X = in X; ene = in it; en X-on = into X; enen = into it
That right there makes me feel like you just assigned me a math problem, LOL.

I'll have to research this a bit more.

sergejm:2. multe da X-oj = multaj X-oj = many (of) X-es
So is multe always used with da then?

sergejm:3. tial = do (about always), 'tial' is a table word, 'do' is not.
Okay, so you could say:

Johano fifaris krimon, tial la polico arestis lin.

or

Johano fifaris krimon, do la polico arestis lin.

Is that right?

sergejm:Similarly: ĉi tiam = nun = now
Okay, that's good to know.

sergejm:7. 'reĝido' is a son of a king. 'princo' can be, e. g. Russian князь
Hmm, okay.

I knew that reĝido technically means "son of a king," but both the dictionaries I looked at also give "prince" as a definition. The reason I bring it up is because on Zamenhof's translation of Hamlet he uses the title, "Hamleto, Reĝido de Denujo." Whereas there's a more recent translation by L.N.M. Newell that uses the title, "Hamleto, Princo de Denujo."

opajpoaj (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 9:08:36

6. okazpensite ???

Zam_franca (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 9:52:01

"BTW" can also be translated by parenteze.

Metsis (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 13:33:15

Reedited 2020-04-13

First remember that in English a lot of depends on word order and context. In order to be easIER to understand Esperanto strives for explicit marking.

1. ene emphasizes the "inner, inside"

The actual need for "ene(n)" is quite limited.
 
  • Mi estas en la domo : I am in the house.
  • Mi estas ene de la domo : I am inside the house (e.g. not bending out of window or something like that).
  • Mi iras en la domon : I go/am going into the house.
  • Mi iras enen la domon : I go/am going inside into the house (e.g. not going to stay in the porch).
2. (advanced topic) When you say
 
  • Mi legas libron : I read a book
you usually mean that you are reading a part of a book, not the whole book (of some unspecified book). da is used to denote the partitive case. For plural this gets more blurry. Compare
 
  • Mi legas librojn.
  • Mi legas multe da libroj.
How many books are you reading and are you reading them from cover to cover or just partially? The accusative expression is completely mute on those points. On the other hand the partitive expression multe da libroj explicitly states that you are reading only some of the (somehow specified set of) books. When it comes to the question of whether "from cover to cover", the partitive in plural is usually understood in such a way that while you read only some books, you read those from cover to cover.

3. Those tabelvortoj that end with al denote cause. Tial means "for that reason". Note that Esperanto is quite picky with cause and consequence (an advanced topic). Do is more casual so.

4. & 5.

Jes is an affirmative expression, you agree with the speaker. Bone is often used as a feedback marker, "yes, I hear you", but it doesn't mean I agree with you. (So be careful when your significant other asks "Ĉu vi portas la rubujon eksteren?", "Jes" is the correct answer, "bone" is not.)

6. Parenteze is the idiomatic way as Zam franca said.

7. reĝido vs. princo

The original idea of Zamenhof was to keep the number of roots as small as possible, e.g. you deriver the word for prince from reĝ/. However already in the early years of Esperanto there was a lot of people who wanted there to be "more precise" words (this hasn't changed during the decades). A hundred years ago many words were taken from French to have these "more precise" words and thus you got the word princo. Nowadays English is mostly used as a source for these "more precise" words.

StefKo (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 18:25:26

Metsis:(...)
Mi estas ene en la domo : I am inside the house (e.g. not bending out of window or something like that).
(...)
Mi iras enen la domon : I go/am going inside into the house (e.g. not going to stay in the porch).[/list]
Kial ne:

Mi estas ene de la domo kaj Mi iras enen al la domo?

Mi pensas ke ni povus tiel skribi sed kun komo, kiam ni alprecizigas:

Mi estas ene, en la domo kaj Mi iras enen, en la domon

Metsis (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 12. 20:20:52

StefKo:
Kial ne:

Mi estas ene de la domo kaj Mi iras enen al la domo?

Mi pensas ke ni povus tiel skribi sed kun komo, kiam ni alprecizigas:

Mi estas ene, en la domo kaj Mi iras enen, en la domon
Bonaj demandoj! La bezono por "ene" estas tiel rara, ke mi ne certas, kiuj esprimoj estas ĝustaj. Ŝajnas, ke "ene de la domo", sed "enen… la domo…" estas pli malfacila. Ĉiuokaze mi pensas, ke sen komo estas ĝusta por "ene", ĉar la bazo de tiu vorto estas prepozicio. Aliflanke se vi skribas kun komo, do uzu "interne", ĉar ties bazo estas adjektivo. Povas esti, ke mi eraras.

PrimeMinisterK (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 13. 5:51:05

Zam_franca:"BTW" can also be translated by parenteze.
Okay, cool.

Is this something that's used frequently in conversation?

PrimeMinisterK (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 13. 6:14:07

Metsis:
2. (advanced topic) When you say
 
  • Mi legas libron : I read a book
you usually mean that you are reading a part of a book, not the whole book (of some unspecified book). da is used to denote the partitive case. For plural this gets more blurry. Compare
 
  • Mi legas librojn.
  • Mi legas multe da librojn.
How many books are you reading and are you reading them from cover to cover or just partially? The accusative expression is completely mute on those points. On the other hand the partitive expression multe da libroj explicitly states that you are reading only some of the (somehow specified set of) books. When it comes to the question of whether "from cover to cover", the partitive in plural is usually understood in such a way that while you read only some books, you read those from cover to cover.
So is multe always used with da, as the combination multe da, and never by itself?

What if I simply want to say: I read a lot of books/I read many books. As in, just as a matter of course, I do a lot of reading and knock out books frequently.

Would you say, "Mi legas multajn librojn"? Or "Mi legas multe da librojn?"

Does either work in this case? Or am I totally wrong and neither of those are correct?

Metsis:3. Those tabelvortoj that end with al denote cause. Tial means "for that reason". Note that Esperanto is quite picky with cause and consequence (an advanced topic). Do is more casual so.
"So" would ultimately still mean "for that reason" though, correct? For instance: The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, so the United States entered the war.

Can you think of an instance were "tial" would work but "do" would not?

Metsis:4. & 5.

Jes is an affirmative expression, you agree with the speaker. Bone is often used as a feedback marker, "yes, I hear you", but it doesn't mean I agree with you. (So be careful when your significant other asks "Ĉu vi portas la rubujon eksteren?", "Jes" is the correct answer, "bone" is not.)
LOL okay, got it.

Metsis:6. Parenteze is the idiomatic way as Zam franca said.
Is this a frequently used expression? I've never run into it before, but when chatting in English can see BTW very frequently.

Metsis:7. reĝido vs. princo

The original idea of Zamenhof was to keep the number of roots as small as possible, e.g. you deriver the word for prince from reĝ/. However already in the early years of Esperanto there was a lot of people who wanted there to be "more precise" words (this hasn't changed during the decades). A hundred years ago many words were taken from French to have these "more precise" words and thus you got the word princo. Nowadays English is mostly used as a source for these "more precise" words.
Indeed. On the note of vocabulary, I've seen people talk about "archaic" words when it comes to Esperanto. Considering that the language is not even 150 years old yet, why is anything considered archaic? Furthermore, it would seem that a language like Esperanto would be more controlled and that a word that is good in the early days of the language will still be good in a thousand years.

Also, just an observation, but I have noticed that many words seem to have a ton of translations. For instance, I've looked up words in English and it will give me like five different words. For instance, this is going to sound like a random example, but I looked up the word "frivolity" and it gives me:

vaneteco
facilanimaĵo
facilanimeco
frivoleco
frivolo
vantaĵo

The reason I looked that particular word up by the way, was because I was perusing La Sankta Biblio and in Ecclesiates I ran across the word "vantaĵo." I looked it up and got the definitions: frivolity, silliness. So then I turned it around and looked up frivolity to see if I would only get vantaĵo or if I would get more than word. I ended up getting six.

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