Hozzászólások: 10
Nyelv: English
Leisureguy (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 19. 12:53:45
Metsis (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 19. 15:23:13
- Tio estas aŭto : That something is a car → That is a car.
- Tiu aŭto havas ruĝan koloron : That individual of the known set of cars is red → That car is red.
- Jes, tio estas la franca prezidento : It has not yet been established that the person is the president, so we can't use "tiu" (one of the presidents)
- Jes, tiu estas la franca prezidento : It has been established that we speak about a person, so we can use "tiu" (one of the persons)
PS. While both Lernu and Duolingo teach only the word prezidanto, there is actually a word prezidento for a state president, leaving prezidanto to mean a chair person. I prefer to make this distinction clear.
Leisureguy (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 19. 23:08:17
My reading was "Is that particular one of the people standing on the podium the French president?" And in that case "tiu" seemed the right word: the particular one of a group.
"Tio" seems more like "Is that a man or a bush over there in the dark?" In that case "tio" is not singling one out of a group but rather pointing out some particular thing.
Koro_Kokoro (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 20. 0:05:58
Metsis:PS. While both Lernu and Duolingo teach only the word prezidanto, there is actually a word prezidento for a state president, leaving prezidanto to mean a chair person. I prefer to make this distinction clear.Ŝainas, ke ankaŭ prezidinton ekzistas. La sama signifo kiel prezidanto.
Kaj por prezidento oni povas utiligi ankaŭ ŝtatprezidanto.
Felis'.
PrimeMinisterK (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 20. 1:32:33
For instance, in the example given, we know the person in question is a man, and therefore one among the known group of human beings, so I would also think tiu would be correct. But apparently not, and that is not the first example like that that I've run across.
It almost seems like a crapshoot as to which one is correct.
Leisureguy (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 20. 3:04:31
tio = that
tiu = that one
It's inexact, but that's that the thought in my mind. "Kio estas tio?" would be used about some unrecognized apparatus, and "Kio estas tiu?" would be used about one of several unrecognized apparatuses. The meanings (for me) are, respectively, "What is that?" (the first example) and "What is that one?" (he second).
Metsis (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 20. 6:45:44
Leisureguy:I've generally followed this rule of thumb:That is a good rule of thumb.
tio = that
tiu = that one
Metsis (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 20. 7:18:24
Koro_Kokoro:There is a verb prezidi, to lead the speech, to act as a chair person. From that verb one can create substantivajn participojn in the normal way.
Ŝainas, ke ankaŭ prezidinton ekzistas. La sama signifo kiel prezidanto.
Kaj por prezidento oni povas utiligi ankaŭ ŝtatprezidanto.
- prezidinto : persono kiu prezidis, a person who earlier/formerly acted as a chair person
- prezidanto : persono kiu prezidas, a person who acts as a chair person
- prezidonto : persono kiu prezidos, a person who is going to act as a chair person
Although among the definitions in PIV for prezidanto is republikestro (and ŝtatprezidanto would also do), I still prefer prezidento for republikestro, because I fail to see what leading a republic has to do with acting as a chair person. Cf. The parliament has a prezidanto. But you may prefer otherwise.
sergejm (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 20. 18:09:10
Leisureguy:I've generally followed this rule of thumb:Tute male.
tio = that
tiu = that one
tio = that thing
tiu = that
kio = what
kiu = which; (sen sekvanta substantivo) = who
Koro_Kokoro (Profil megtekintése) 2020. április 20. 20:44:15
I think this is something one learns better by practicing (reading, reading, reading and consciously perceiving, reproducing, reading, reading, ...) than by thinking too much.
Metsis:Dankon por ĉi tiu via poŝto. Kion oni povas igi ĉio specife kon participoj, tion mi devas rigardi eĉ pri detale. Sed ĝustnun mi estas en la kansajo dialekto..Koro_Kokoro:There is a verb prezidi, to lead the speech, to act as a chair person. From that verb one can create substantivajn participojn in the normal way.
Ŝainas, ke ankaŭ prezidinton ekzistas. La sama signifo kiel prezidanto.
Kaj por prezidento oni povas utiligi ankaŭ ŝtatprezidanto.
In practice only the -anto form is used.
- prezidinto : persono kiu prezidis, a person who earlier/formerly acted as a chair person
- prezidanto : persono kiu prezidas, a person who acts as a chair person
- prezidonto : persono kiu prezidos, a person who is going to act as a chair person
Although among the definitions in PIV for prezidanto is republikestro (and ŝtatprezidanto would also do), I still prefer prezidento for republikestro, because I fail to see what leading a republic has to do with acting as a chair person. Cf. The parliament has a prezidanto. But you may prefer otherwise.
Ĉion bonan.
Felis'.