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Graphic Novels

de Tidalias, 2008-septembro-12

Mesaĝoj: 146

Lingvo: English

Harun (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-03 19:42:34

It's good to see I'm not the only person who's had this idea. I've translated some clips into Esperanto, but they're TERRIBLE.

Would love to look at any other projects for translating Nipponica into Esperanto.

Cheers,

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-14 02:03:28

Zafur:Some of them are easily translatable like -hime which simply means Princess and doesn't need an explanation.
Actually, I found out that in Esperanto, terminology for royalty is a little more complex than in English. A 'princino' is either the wife of a prince or the daughter of a king (which can also be a reĝidino), while a 'princidino' is the daughter of a prince who hasn't married.

So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-14 09:49:53

Oŝo-Jabe:
So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?
-ojou is not necessarily used for princesses (I cite Hayate no Gotoku! lango.gif) so I'm not sure about it (riĉino might be a bit too crude okulumo.gif)

For princess, I'd translate it as Princino (I wouldn't necessarily use that in text though as it has different connotations in colloquial speech) - it's the translation with the most general meaning. Reĝidino and princidino are more precise though (although wouldn't princidino mean daughter of a prince regardless of marriage, as one can be married and not be king? e.g. Prince William and Prince Henry, 2nd and 3rd in line for the English throne, who'd be princidos).

LyzTyphone (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-15 09:47:00

ceigered:
Oŝo-Jabe:
So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?
-ojou is not necessarily used for princesses (I cite Hayate no Gotoku! lango.gif) so I'm not sure about it (riĉino might be a bit too crude okulumo.gif)
My suggestion will be "Fraŭlino". Do you think that sounds noble enough?

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-18 07:22:49

LyzTyphone:
ceigered:
Oŝo-Jabe:
So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?
-ojou is not necessarily used for princesses (I cite Hayate no Gotoku! lango.gif) so I'm not sure about it (riĉino might be a bit too crude okulumo.gif)
My suggestion will be "Fraŭlino". Do you think that sounds noble enough?
I think it sounds fine. I realized that -ojou has three translations in English, corresponding to different graphemes. It can mean 'queen,' 'princess,' or 'miss.'

LyzTyphone (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-21 14:44:33

Oŝo-Jabe:I think it sounds fine. I realized that -ojou has three translations in English, corresponding to different graphemes. It can mean 'queen,' 'princess,' or 'miss.'
It can even have more~

-ojou (お嬢) is actually a honorific for any unmarried female in general. Now in a more democratic world its use sometimes seems old-fashioned or mocking. The best kind of person to use it on is the daughter of someone rich, famous or powerful.

I doubt it can cover the meaning of "queen", because isn't it by difinition that a queen be married? 女王 (jo-ou) which signifies "female ruler"=queen has a similar prounciation. Maybe...?

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 05:41:23

LyzTyphone:-san: "The most ordinary honorific in a conversation. Can be dropped. Used when the relationship is not yet certain." (wiki)
The tough one with many possible equivalence.
My suggestion will be, to ask oneself, what will this character say in Esperanto when addressing to this person in this kind of occasion. Therefore, if this character is really addressing to someone superior I will suggest add "Sinjoro" or other title; if he/she is just being polite I will suggest drop the honorific completely.
It's definitely way off, but what about "kamarado?" Since one can use it for everyone (unlike the fraŭlino/sinjorino/sinjoro situation.) You said that it was used when a relationship is uncertain, and "kamarado" could indicate a hesitation between, for example, "sinjoro" and "amiko."

LyzTyphone:4. "Joshigo", aŭ Ina parolo
I reserve the space for this topic but don't yet want to come to this one, as this is going to be another bloody battle.
I don't know for sure, but I think that this is the only can of worms we've left unopened. It may be time to open it...

Uvi (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 16:09:11

Tidalias:Does anyone know of any graphic novels or comics that have been translated into Esperanto, and where I could find them?

I know many people who would probably get interested in learning a little Esperanto, if there were an interesting graphic novel/manga to read in it.

I've found several old Russian animations and such with E-o subtitles, which proved rather entertaining, so I'm longing for some other visual stories. (Even any other animations suggested)

Thanks for any suggestions!
Personally, if I could find an Esperanto translation of "From Hell" by Alan Moore, or the "DeathNote" series by Tsugumi Ohba, I'd be in Heaven, lol!! rido.gif

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 22:05:41

Oŝo-Jabe:
LyzTyphone:Therefore, if this character is really addressing to someone superior I will suggest add "Sinjoro" or other title; if he/she is just being polite I will suggest drop the honorific completely.
It's definitely way off, but what about "kamarado?"
I would definitely not use "kamarado".

I don't know anything about Japanese honorifics, but based on what I have been reading in this thread, if -san is only indicating politeness, then there is no need to put anything at all. Kamarado does not indicate politeness in Esperanto. Titles are only a small part of how we indicate politeness in Esperanto (and English, for that matter). We indicate politeness by not including rude words, and by using the appropriate polite words (please and thank you, and if you would, and if you don't mind). My preference would be to use this system in a translation.

Having said this, I don't generally support the use of untranslated Japanese (or any other language) honorifics in texts, but if there were a single honorific that I would consider including in an Esperanto translation, unmodified, it would be -san. It is probably the only Japanese honorific that is generally internationally known.
Since one can use it for everyone (unlike the fraŭlino/sinjorino/sinjoro situation.) You said that it was used when a relationship is uncertain, and "kamarado" could indicate a hesitation between, for example, "sinjoro" and "amiko."
It's true that you can use it for everyone, but the acid test here is what constitutes normal speech. Esperantists don't go around calling each other "kamarado", and Japanese people also don't go around calling each other by the Japanese equivalent of "comrade", so I think kamarado is a poor choice. The Esperanto term to use when you hesitate between "sinjoro" and "amiko" is to say nothing. And people don't even call each other "amiko" very frequently. They aren't like the Brits or Aussies, calling each other "mate" every third word (Cheers to our Brit and Aussie forum readers! But yeah, to the Yankee ear, you guys call each other "mate" all the time, we really have no US equivalent).

LyzTyphone:4. "Joshigo", aŭ Ina parolo
I reserve the space for this topic but don't yet want to come to this one, as this is going to be another bloody battle.
I'm an uninterested party and happy to offer opinions on this. I know that this is referring to the particular way in which women talk in Japanese. I want to disregard for the moment, how to translate it, I will treat that as a separate issue. I'm interested in the cultural function of it, and what would happen without it. Let's say that someone wrote a translation in which women's particular speech patterns were completely disregarded. What would conceivably be lost by doing that, and how would that harm the reader's understanding of the story? And how do translations of Japanese texts into other languages (English translations, or whatever) normally deal with this?

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 23:26:24

The thing about Joshigo, I think, is that it is only conspicuous when it is absent, (or present with males.) In all likelihood, the best way to translate it, would be to just use regular Esperanto. Then just find a different way to contrast the normal speech with speech normally used by the other gender. Perhaps by giving each character who doesn't use the "proper" forms a speech quirk?

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