Mesaĝoj: 146
Lingvo: English
Harun (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-03 19:42:34
Would love to look at any other projects for translating Nipponica into Esperanto.
Cheers,
Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-14 02:03:28
Zafur:Some of them are easily translatable like -hime which simply means Princess and doesn't need an explanation.Actually, I found out that in Esperanto, terminology for royalty is a little more complex than in English. A 'princino' is either the wife of a prince or the daughter of a king (which can also be a reĝidino), while a 'princidino' is the daughter of a prince who hasn't married.
So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-14 09:49:53
Oŝo-Jabe:-ojou is not necessarily used for princesses (I cite Hayate no Gotoku! ) so I'm not sure about it (riĉino might be a bit too crude )
So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?
For princess, I'd translate it as Princino (I wouldn't necessarily use that in text though as it has different connotations in colloquial speech) - it's the translation with the most general meaning. Reĝidino and princidino are more precise though (although wouldn't princidino mean daughter of a prince regardless of marriage, as one can be married and not be king? e.g. Prince William and Prince Henry, 2nd and 3rd in line for the English throne, who'd be princidos).
LyzTyphone (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-15 09:47:00
ceigered:My suggestion will be "Fraŭlino". Do you think that sounds noble enough?Oŝo-Jabe:-ojou is not necessarily used for princesses (I cite Hayate no Gotoku! ) so I'm not sure about it (riĉino might be a bit too crude )
So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?
Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-18 07:22:49
LyzTyphone:I think it sounds fine. I realized that -ojou has three translations in English, corresponding to different graphemes. It can mean 'queen,' 'princess,' or 'miss.'ceigered:My suggestion will be "Fraŭlino". Do you think that sounds noble enough?Oŝo-Jabe:-ojou is not necessarily used for princesses (I cite Hayate no Gotoku! ) so I'm not sure about it (riĉino might be a bit too crude )
So, what which of those would -ojou and -hime be in Esperanto?
LyzTyphone (Montri la profilon) 2009-oktobro-21 14:44:33
Oŝo-Jabe:I think it sounds fine. I realized that -ojou has three translations in English, corresponding to different graphemes. It can mean 'queen,' 'princess,' or 'miss.'It can even have more~
-ojou (お嬢) is actually a honorific for any unmarried female in general. Now in a more democratic world its use sometimes seems old-fashioned or mocking. The best kind of person to use it on is the daughter of someone rich, famous or powerful.
I doubt it can cover the meaning of "queen", because isn't it by difinition that a queen be married? 女王 (jo-ou) which signifies "female ruler"=queen has a similar prounciation. Maybe...?
Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 05:41:23
LyzTyphone:-san: "The most ordinary honorific in a conversation. Can be dropped. Used when the relationship is not yet certain." (wiki)It's definitely way off, but what about "kamarado?" Since one can use it for everyone (unlike the fraŭlino/sinjorino/sinjoro situation.) You said that it was used when a relationship is uncertain, and "kamarado" could indicate a hesitation between, for example, "sinjoro" and "amiko."
The tough one with many possible equivalence.
My suggestion will be, to ask oneself, what will this character say in Esperanto when addressing to this person in this kind of occasion. Therefore, if this character is really addressing to someone superior I will suggest add "Sinjoro" or other title; if he/she is just being polite I will suggest drop the honorific completely.
LyzTyphone:4. "Joshigo", aŭ Ina paroloI don't know for sure, but I think that this is the only can of worms we've left unopened. It may be time to open it...
I reserve the space for this topic but don't yet want to come to this one, as this is going to be another bloody battle.
Uvi (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 16:09:11
Tidalias:Does anyone know of any graphic novels or comics that have been translated into Esperanto, and where I could find them?Personally, if I could find an Esperanto translation of "From Hell" by Alan Moore, or the "DeathNote" series by Tsugumi Ohba, I'd be in Heaven, lol!!
I know many people who would probably get interested in learning a little Esperanto, if there were an interesting graphic novel/manga to read in it.
I've found several old Russian animations and such with E-o subtitles, which proved rather entertaining, so I'm longing for some other visual stories. (Even any other animations suggested)
Thanks for any suggestions!
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 22:05:41
Oŝo-Jabe:I would definitely not use "kamarado".LyzTyphone:Therefore, if this character is really addressing to someone superior I will suggest add "Sinjoro" or other title; if he/she is just being polite I will suggest drop the honorific completely.It's definitely way off, but what about "kamarado?"
I don't know anything about Japanese honorifics, but based on what I have been reading in this thread, if -san is only indicating politeness, then there is no need to put anything at all. Kamarado does not indicate politeness in Esperanto. Titles are only a small part of how we indicate politeness in Esperanto (and English, for that matter). We indicate politeness by not including rude words, and by using the appropriate polite words (please and thank you, and if you would, and if you don't mind). My preference would be to use this system in a translation.
Having said this, I don't generally support the use of untranslated Japanese (or any other language) honorifics in texts, but if there were a single honorific that I would consider including in an Esperanto translation, unmodified, it would be -san. It is probably the only Japanese honorific that is generally internationally known.
Since one can use it for everyone (unlike the fraŭlino/sinjorino/sinjoro situation.) You said that it was used when a relationship is uncertain, and "kamarado" could indicate a hesitation between, for example, "sinjoro" and "amiko."It's true that you can use it for everyone, but the acid test here is what constitutes normal speech. Esperantists don't go around calling each other "kamarado", and Japanese people also don't go around calling each other by the Japanese equivalent of "comrade", so I think kamarado is a poor choice. The Esperanto term to use when you hesitate between "sinjoro" and "amiko" is to say nothing. And people don't even call each other "amiko" very frequently. They aren't like the Brits or Aussies, calling each other "mate" every third word (Cheers to our Brit and Aussie forum readers! But yeah, to the Yankee ear, you guys call each other "mate" all the time, we really have no US equivalent).
LyzTyphone:4. "Joshigo", aŭ Ina paroloI'm an uninterested party and happy to offer opinions on this. I know that this is referring to the particular way in which women talk in Japanese. I want to disregard for the moment, how to translate it, I will treat that as a separate issue. I'm interested in the cultural function of it, and what would happen without it. Let's say that someone wrote a translation in which women's particular speech patterns were completely disregarded. What would conceivably be lost by doing that, and how would that harm the reader's understanding of the story? And how do translations of Japanese texts into other languages (English translations, or whatever) normally deal with this?
I reserve the space for this topic but don't yet want to come to this one, as this is going to be another bloody battle.
Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2009-novembro-22 23:26:24