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scii vs. scipovi

jawq81, 2008 m. spalis 13 d.

Žinutės: 10

Kalba: English

jawq81 (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 13 d. 21:09:35

I find the use of the verbs 'scii' and 'scipovi' confusing. Scii has the meaning "to know, to know how". Scipovi also has the meaning of "to know how". Take the sentence "Mi ne sciis, ke vi scipovas veturigi!", which is taken from David Richardson's Esperanto, lesson 6. Is there a shade of meaning here that I am not grasping, or is 'scipovas' used simply to avoid reusing the verb 'scii'? Thanks in advance for the help.

awake (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 13 d. 23:45:08

jawq81:I find the use of the verbs 'scii' and 'scipovi' confusing. Scii has the meaning "to know, to know how". Scipovi also has the meaning of "to know how". Take the sentence "Mi ne sciis, ke vi scipovas veturigi!", which is taken from David Richardson's Esperanto, lesson 6. Is there a shade of meaning here that I am not grasping, or is 'scipovas' used simply to avoid reusing the verb 'scii'? Thanks in advance for the help.
I think the distinction is that scii refers to knowing facts whereas scipovi refers to having (knowing) skills.

jawq81 (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 14 d. 01:09:02

Aah, OK. I didn't make that association. Scipovi doesn't seem to be all that common, but the next time I see the word used, I will keep this usage in mind. Thank you, Awake, for your response.

galvis (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 14 d. 18:10:13

---I always thought that scipovi, had the meaning of curiosity, curiousness.

To have curiosity about anything, about knowledge.

Mi scipovas pri kutimoj de tiu lando.
Mi scipovas pri maniero iri tian lokon.

--gxis--

Matthieu (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 14 d. 18:45:22

I think you confused scipovi and scivoli.

trojo (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 14 d. 19:19:18

I can't think of a circumstance off-hand where it would be preferable to use "scii" to mean "to know how". I pretty much always use "scipovi" for "to know how" and "scii" for "to know [some factual knowledge]".

tommjames (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 15 d. 13:51:16

trojo:I can't think of a circumstance off-hand where it would be preferable to use "scii" to mean "to know how". I pretty much always use "scipovi" for "to know how" and "scii" for "to know [some factual knowledge]".
I can't think of any where it would be preferable either. I can think of some where it would be possible though, where knowledge about how to do something is implied through the context of the thing you know, for example

"Mi scias Esperanton"

..would imply knowledge about -how- to speak esperanto, since this is what knowing a language essentially entails. Beyond this kind of context though, I can't think of why you'd want to use "scii" to mean "to know how".

jawq81 (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 15 d. 17:27:11

I'm not trying to nitpick, but could you say something like "Cxiuj bezonas scii legi.", which hopefully means "Everyone needs to know how to read."?

tommjames (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 15 d. 20:11:19

jawq81:I'm not trying to nitpick, but could you say something like "Cxiuj bezonas scii legi.", which hopefully means "Everyone needs to know how to read."?
Personally I wouldn't translate it that way. If anything I'd take it to be a mistaken way of saying "Ĉiuj bezonas scii por legi" or perhaps "Ĉiuj bezonas scii ke ili devas legi" If you wanted to use 'scii' to say something about knowing how to do something, you might say "Ĉiuj bezonas scii kiel legi" but there's no point doing that when we have the verb 'scipovi' to hand.

The thing to remember is that knowing -how- to do something is a specific type of knowledge, therefore we have a separate verb for it. 'Scii' means to know in general.

galvis (Rodyti profilį) 2008 m. spalis 15 d. 23:27:04

I think you confused scipovi and scivoli.
Right you are ¡
Dankon.

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