Съобщения: 8
Език: English
norrisx0 (Покажи профила) 17 октомври 2008, 21:48:16
1) kraj-o-no
aŭ
2) kra-jo-no
I think the proper split is kraj-o-no.
Dankon
RiotNrrd (Покажи профила) 18 октомври 2008, 02:35:01
norrisx0:I think the proper split is kraj-o-no.You think correctly.
"aj" is a single, indivisible, sound in Esperanto.
Miland (Покажи профила) 18 октомври 2008, 11:19:05
"Sometimes people ask, whether in, for example kajo or naŭa, the half-vowel (respectively j or ŭ) ahould be supported by the earlier or later vowel. Should it be ka-jo aŭ kaj-o, na-ŭa or naŭ-a? There are no rules about this. You can pronounce them as you wish. However Ŭ is most often supported by the earlier vowel. The pairs AŬ and EŬ are, as it were, fixed combinations of sounds."
Therefore, in my opinion, either would be correct.
Rogir (Покажи профила) 23 октомври 2008, 16:19:00
Maybe you think so because they are in english. But not every language has the same phonemics as english.
Now in general, consonants are preferably grouped with the following syllable, so in this case I'd say it's kra-jono.
RiotNrrd (Покажи профила) 24 октомври 2008, 01:36:42
Rogir:I must say that I completely disagree with RiotNrrd.Heh. You wouldn't be the first.
I may have answered a bit too quickly and perhaps was off-base.
However, splitting it as kra-jono implies that it is pronounced (using an Englishy transliteration) "krah YO no". But this is not correct. It is pronounced "cry OH no". The "aj" combo is not the same as "a" and "j" simply placed next to one another, but in different syllables.
Rohan (Покажи профила) 24 октомври 2008, 07:17:55
In Esperanto, it's a given that each letter can always be pronounced using its 'basic' pronunciation. For example, it may so happen that while pronouncing the combination 'ng', the 'n' gets assimilated into the 'g', but one can certainly pronounce it without assimilating the 'n', without any fear of that pronunciation being labelled 'wrong'. So pronouncing 'aj' as a diphthong might be convenient, but if one were to pronounce those letters with their basic pronunciations, that ought to perfectly fine... In fact, I daresay it would probably be more faithful to the 'One letter, one sound' ideal of the Fundamento...
Also, stress (at least in Esperanto, as far as I know) is always carried by a vowel. So whether the word is split into 'kra-YO-no' or 'cry-O-no', the stress is carried by the same vowel.
Considering these points, I don't see why 'kra-YO-no' should be termed 'not correct'. I think it's a perfectly valid way to pronounce the word.
P.S. Mr. Miland has translated 'Tamen Ŭ plej ofte apogas sin al la antaŭa vokalo.' as 'However with Ŭ we most often stress the earlier vowel.'. I don't agree. I'd say, "However, Ŭ is usually supported by the previous vowel." The issue being discussed in the relevant paragraph of the PMEG is not 'Which vowel should be stressed?', but 'During syllabification, should Ŭ be considered part of the syllable containing the vowel preceding it, or of the one containing the vowel succeeding it?'
I humbly rest my case(s).
jan aleksan (Покажи профила) 24 октомври 2008, 08:29:07
Compare "jam" and "iam". First, "j" shouldn't sound like /i/, but like /y/ as in "huge".
second, the accent is not located on the same place: jAm, Iam.
But personally, I think that it would be easier if "j" simply didn't exist...
, Miland (Покажи профила) 24 октомври 2008, 09:43:54
Rohan: I'd say, "However, Ŭ is usually supported by the previous vowel."Yes, the word 'stress' would cause confusion here. What I meant was 'emphasize' (by the juxtaposed half-vowel), but the text itself uses the word 'support' which may be best here. I have edited my earlier post accordingly; thanks for pointing this out.