Hey Steeven! Nice to have you here!

I think it was a few days ago that I read through the grammar of Slovioski and found that I agree with your comments - Slovioski does seem much more natural than Slovio (grammar especially).

I guess one of the major problems I see with ever creating an auxiliary language is getting certain parties interested, e.g. some slavic speakers such as Ukrainians might just switch to Russian, where as, as you said, many will just go straight to English not because they can't understand each other but because that way the disproportionate English audience on the net can understand. Hopefully Slovioski will be slavic enough to get a substantial audience.

Ah another thing I had on my mind was a simplified, almost "pidgin" version of the language (where declension etc is reduced) - is there going to be a version like this (for more "international use", e.g. slack American/Australian tourists on a croatian beach trying to buy icecream )?

I heard that Slovianski-P hasn't really gotten far, or maybe it's just because the Langmaker page I found it on didn't work very well (and it's not really mentioned on the Slovianski site). I thought it was a good idea though, it reminded me of the differences between Old Norse and Swedish - both looked natural, just one is much easier for a foreign speaker (unless that foreign speaker is from Iceland ).

Anyway good work with the Slovioski project and I hope the project will continue to go nicely!

As for Upper Sorbian-English dictionaries, I couldn't really find any decent ones (which is a pity because I had an interest in that language).
I could find however through wikipedia:
http://www.boehmak.de/ (German-Upper Sorbian)
and
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/translat...

Ailanto:Slovioski Dictionary

Whoops! How could I miss such a cool looking dictionary! Thanks for this link Ailanto (despite my somewhat delayed realisation/reaction)!

Skyscout:Thank you for letting me visit.
I am absolutely in awe over finding your surprisingly familiar but unfamiliar language. Is there a good English - Hornjoserbsce - English slownik available?
I would truly like to include it in our "master" set of words at: http://slovknig.wikia.com/wiki/Slovknig_Wiki

Our site is originally written in Esperanto and then translated into other languages, including Hornjoserbsce. Our translator for Hornjoserbsce is the user milupo; you can contact him using lernu's internal messaging system if you have questions about his translations.

ceigered:Ah another thing I had on my mind was a simplified, almost "pidgin" version of the language (where declension etc is reduced) - is there going to be a version like this (for more "international use", e.g. slack American/Australian tourists on a croatian beach trying to buy icecream )?

ceigered:

SLOVIOSKI does have an "almost pidgin" version - which was actually its "first iteration". Although not completely absent of declension - it reduced declensions to two forms - a singular and a plural:
"-u" = singular
"ih" = plural

Please bear in mind that SLOVIOSKI was original contemplated as "a more Slavic SLOVIO" intended for use primariy by "Slavic speakers" - all of whom are absolutely familiar with declensions. Indeed, NOT having declensions for Slavic speakers was almost anathema - and that is the reason that "we" expanded SLOVIOSKI to include a full declensions.

HOWEVER, since then, I for one have seen the need to have a very simplified SLOVIOSKI - which relies on PREPOSITIONS rather than declensions ..... so that, as you noted, "e.g. slack American/Australian tourists on a croatian beach..." can buy their "icecream"


Currently, we are modifying our primary "public" grammar page: SLOVIOSKI GRAMMAR

As I noted earlier, SLOVIOSKI is still in its early stages of determining "What Works" and "What Does Not Work" BEST.

Esperanto, in contrast parallel, obviously has a bit of lead.

We have recently prepared a series of "Phrase Lessons" for SLOVIOSKI, which can be found at:

SLOVIOSKI PHRASES - Draft #1

and will be posted at SLOVIOSKI's YAHOO FILES page as well:

SLOVIOSKI Yahoo Forum

I appreciate your and everyone else's comments on SLOVIOSKI and ConLang's in general.

Blagodarim te! (Thank you)
Blago te (short slang form)
Denkujim te (alternatve "Thank you" - reflects Western Slavic Languages' forms)

Very cool! Thanks for that information, I'll keep an eye out on the Slovioski pages to see how the language and resources for it are going! .

Skyscout:Indeed, NOT having declensions for Slavic speakers was almost anathema

I know what you mean - I myself am trying my hand at writing a Western Germanic auxiliary conlang but I've found that there are some things where I go "ok, this isn't very logical/this could be changed etc" and then when I review the change I've just made I all of a sudden go "whoah, maybe I SHOULDN'T had done that" (the hardest thing with bridging the differences between Western Germanic languages is trying to avoid making verbs sound dumb, e.g. taking away the -en or ge-, but at the same time trying to keep the language easy).

Yes, indeed - as I speak a pretty fluent Russian (it's my second language), Slovioski phrases were easily understandable for me. At the same time, meanings of Polish and Croatian phrases were much more difficult to catch. Does this mean that Slovioski is more influenced by Russian language?

robinast:Does this mean that Slovioski is more influenced by Russian language?

SLOVIOSKI:
The "fast" answer is "No" - Slovioski was not more influenced by Russian.

There are three primary criteria for Slovioski's vocabulary choices. They are:

(a) commonality of word forms from among the living Slavic languages;
(b) maximum intelligibility for all Slavs; and/or
(c) systematic/schematic word design.

Sometimes (a) and (b) are absent or less obvious.
While all of the Slavic languages presumability derive from a proto-slavic tongue, over the thousands of years of their separations, some Slavic languages use words that are unintelligible to other Slavic speakers. In those cases, "compromise" is required.

"Compromise" may include the use of a word form that is actively used in one or more living Slavic languages, but is "archaic" in the others. What we have learned, however, is that even if archaic in one or more Slavic languages, the speakers of those languages oftentimes recognize the word by its "root" form or because it exists but is rarely use. A good example of this in English is the familiar word forms for "you" - "thou" "thy" "thine" etc.

If "compromise" is impossible, the choice may come down to using the word form that is spoken by the greatest number of people - or the creation of a "new" word form that may have basis in a recognisable Slavic "root form".

"Living Slavic Languages" are comprised within three branches/tribes of the Slavic tongue:

East Slavic: Russian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Rusyn
West Slavic: Polish Czech, Slovak, Kashubian, Upper & Lower Sorbian
South Slavic: Croatian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Slovenian, Macedonian and Bosnian

For practical reasons, we will disregard languages that are spoken by less than one million speakers (Sorbian, Kashubian and Rusyn) - although, oftentimes, these languages will offer a "compromise" word.

Because of their similarity, Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian are usually treated as one language.

Unlike SLOVIO, we try to avoid using non-Slavic elements - although under the criterium of "maximum intelligibility" we do not always follow this rule. In those instances, we will usually opt to declare two words as "official" Slovioski words (example: the non-Slavic word "flag" is used as the "official" Russian word and recognised and oftentimes used in Bulgarian and Polish (flaga).

Slovioski opted for the use of the Slavic word "zastava", which is the primary word in Croatian, Serbian ans Slovenian, and also sometimes used in Czech and Slovak (Bulgarian & Macedonian "zname" and Ukrainian has "znameno").
However, the word "flag" is also recognised.

The above is an example of where Slovioski will compromise by using an "international" equivalent word.

...continued in next post ......

...continued from last post

Criterium "(c) - systematic/schematic word design" relates more often to grammatical considerations than it does to "word formation," although it does sometimes become an issue for new vocabulary.

This criterium is perhaps the one most contentious element of SLOVIOSKI among its "co-enablers" and the native Slavic speakers with whom we counsel:

I am a proponent of using grammatical conventions that are consistent throughout the ConLang - (this, I believe, holds true for Esperanto). Many native Slavic-speakers, however, want to allow for "natural formations" for both grammar and and vocabulary. A vocabulary example of this are the words for "east" / "south". In their NOUN forms, these words in SLOVIOSKI are: "vostok" and "jug" ("jug" is pronounced akin to English "yug"). In their adjectival form, schematically/systematically these words would be: "vostoknij" or "vostokij" ("vostok-nee" or "vostok-ee" in English sound form) and "jugnij" or "jugij" ("yug-nee" or "yug-ee").
However, true Slavic form converts the hard sound of the letters "k" and "g" to the English sounds of "ch" (as in "cheek" or "chew") and "zh" (as the "s" in "pleaSure" or "meaSure") - resulting in the morphed word forms of:
"vostočnij" ("vos-toch-nee") and "južnij" ("yuzh-nee"), respectively.

In this instance, SLOVIOSKI did NOT follow the systematic/schematic format, but opted for the natural Slavic forms.

As I noted in my earlier post, SLOVIOSKI is still "in transition" having its genesis as an auxiliary conlang around June 2008. If you would like to follow its growth, please feel free to do so at these locations:

Wiki: SLOVKNIG
(this is a listing of new Slovioski vocabulary words and their equivalents in the living Slavic languages - click on the "WORDS" tab on the left, where a full listing of the new vocabulary is noted. If you click on a particular word, it will display. If there is "DISCUSSION" on the word - the TAB in the upper right corner of your screen entitled "Discussion" will be in BLUE color (very interesting discussions may occur here, along with some acrimony at times ).

Yahoo SLOVIOSKI Forum: YAHOO
(not as active as the SLOVKNIG site, but we'll be sure to post discussion more often there)

SLOVIOSKI DICTIONARY: DICTIONARY

This dictionary was originally based upon the SLOVIO dictionary. The SLOVIOSKI dictionary is in constant transition - converting many of the 40,000+ SLOVIO words into SLOVIOSKI conventions. (NOTE: not all of the words have been transitioned yet. As of the date of this post, for example, the adjectival form for word "SOUTH" has NOT been transitioned to the "zh" format yet)

Thanks for all this info about Slovioski! And for the link to Slovknig Wiki; I had not seen that site yet.