Non binary pronouns and hypotesis of termination for gender-neutral-only nouns
ca, kivuye
Ubutumwa 9
ururimi: English
janicxka (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 19 Ntwarante 2023 19:13:41
Esperanto is a language wich was left to its esperantistoj to be able to change it and keep its vocabulary updated time-by-time.
Referring to a person wich gender is unknown esperanto uses "li". So we are allowed to think that we should use "li" even for non binary people, althought this may cause gender dysphoria to some people (including me lmao). But Studing by other ways I found "ri" pronoun, wich is supposed to be used by non binary/gender non conforming people. I think it would be nice if Lernu could update in order to be more inclusive.
Then now I'm scared to go off topic. If anyone would advice me and redirect me to another topic, then do it
.This discussion is pretty similar to the previous. The "-o" termination is utilized to refer to masculine and gender neutral/non gendered nouns. What if, in order to the "ri" pronoun, we use "-iro" termination to refer to non binary nouns (ex: "patriro", "instruistiro", etc.)? It could be extended to all nongendered objects, but it would be tricky for people who speak Esperanto by many years, and frankly useless - because referring to objects you cannot harm nor harass them (duh). But concerning conditions, jobs, etc, I think adding this termination would help non binary/gender non conforming people to approach Esperanto!
Let me know what do you think about that!
VirinoInterseks (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 19 Ntwarante 2023 22:44:57
If you're unexperienced in Esperanto and struggle with it; I think you should hold off on changing the language until you are familiar enough with it that you can actually discuss problems. Esperanto is a highly fleksible language and you would be surprised at how many problems can be solved within esperanto itself.
Simply put, don't bother with reforms until you learn Esperanto properly, because a bunch of them aren't even neccessary as solutions already exist in Esperanto itself!
All fundamental Esperanto rules are in the Fundamento: www.akademio-de-esperanto.org/fundamento/index.html (Italian Version: archive.org/details/FundamentoDeEsperantoEldonoItala/mode/2up.)
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Esperanto doesn't have a grammatical gender. -o doesn't denote a gender. Where did you get that information from?
Anyway, you can specify gender with the radicals vir' and in' on their own:
X = radical or root word
X' - for unsexed (like edz')
vir'X' - for male parent (like vir'av)
X'in' - for female parent (like patr'in or in'patr)
IF you want, you could logically use vir'X'in' for male-female (so intersex), like vir'patr'in.
For non-binary persons you have:
* oni is an indefinite pronoun, which refers to "they-one people" or undefined person(s). I'm uncertain if it refers to one person or two persons; but it should fit your use case.
* ĝi is a pronoun which refers to any being and object.
janicxka (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 20 Ntwarante 2023 09:34:19
VirinoInterseks (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 20 Ntwarante 2023 10:07:07
Mi penas ke vi devus vidi ankaŭ tion: remush.be/rebuttal/index.html#sexism (en angla, uzi tradukiston)
Fine, devu respekti Esperanton kvazaŭ oni spece respekti naciajn lingvojn; ne malrespekti esperantistojn ĉar vi pensi pli bonajn opiniojn.
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You are welcome.
I also think you should see this: remush.be/rebuttal/index.html#sexism (in english, use translator)
Finally, please respect Esperanto like people typically do with national languages; don't just disrespect the speakers just because you think you have better opinions.
janicxka (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 20 Ntwarante 2023 14:04:17
If it is so, I'm sorry I gave this impression: I swear I'll pay more attention.
VirinoInterseks (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 20 Ntwarante 2023 16:03:54
Also, some users (not all!) on here are unfortunately bigoted and have problems with LGBT+; I support LGBT and I'm not ultra bigoted, just letting you know. Luckily, It's possible to solve problems in Esperanto without resorting to bigotry.
Metsis (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 10 Ndamukiza 2023 13:23:57
There are a lot of proposals with more or less thought-out solutions to diverse issues people perceive Esperanto has with gendered words. The two most widely spread solutions when it comes to pronouns are:
- do nothing, that is, keep using li in its double sense
- use ri for all
When it comes to nouns, note that need for gender-marking is shrinking. Putting -in into words like amiko, instruisto make you sound like old-fashioned, antiquated in the eyes of many. In other words amiko is whatever-gendered friend. Quite likely the names of closest relatives will stay gendered, but some already use the word kuzo while referring to any cousin.
Altebrilas (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 10 Ndamukiza 2023 15:53:09
Logike ge-io-ajno estas unu ano de aro de ge-io-ajnoj, kaj tio obeas al la gxenerala legxo.
La cetero dependas de la elekto de la parolanto:
Profesiulo kiu instruas:
-instruisto: verŝajne vira, aŭ sekso ne gravas
‐ instruistino: ina
- virinstruisto: nepre vira
- geinstruisto: gravas signifi, ke tiu ulo povas esti el iu ajn sekso.
Ekz. La kajero de la gelernanto devas esti subskribita de gepatro.
amigueo (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 11 Ndamukiza 2023 15:58:53
""I think adding this termination would help non binary/gender non conforming people to approach Esperanto!""
Miaj proponoj:
RI povus roli kiel persono/ulo.
HI kiel icxo.
SXI kiel ino.
PI kiel neduumulo (ipo).
" Unuefoje ke mi trovis ipon, mi ne sciis kiun pronomon uzi aux inventi. Kvankam mi sekrete estis ipo ekde ipmia ado(leskant)eco.
Atro, edzo, frato, filo povas esti SXI, HI, PI, RI aux LI.
LI povus simple esti singulara formo de ILI.