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Some clarification

by pianopimp27, December 7, 2008

Messages: 31

Language: English

Rogir (User's profile) December 11, 2008, 5:51:39 PM

Well in the babilejo the strangest thing are said, and 'stas may be among them. We also often say 'luton and kiel vi. But chatboxes are the lowest form of human contact, isn't it?

erinja (User's profile) December 11, 2008, 8:45:25 PM

Perhaps this is borne of beginners speaking among themselves, or of internet communication between beginners. In any case, I do not really find that fluent Esperanto speakers use 'stas, even if they are young, and even if they are speaking very informally.

ceigered (User's profile) December 12, 2008, 12:44:35 PM

erinja:Perhaps this is borne of beginners speaking among themselves, or of internet communication between beginners. In any case, I do not really find that fluent Esperanto speakers use 'stas, even if they are young, and even if they are speaking very informally.
Mmm, judging from the lively discussion before hand, this is definitely going to be a hot topic in Esperanto's future.

It seems as if this could be linked to the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis and how different speakers choose to use Esperanto. Nonetheless, with the internet now being so accessible (to think you can surf the net on an PSP or iPod!) this is probably bound to happen more often as a wider audience of 'TXTrz' and 'MSNrz' reach Esperanto (this isn't just in English too I might add - I was suprised to be asked the question 'Tu 6?' by an Italian over MSN (sei = six *or* are))... Maybe the biggest probably for Esperanto speakers is the irregularities and peculiar nature of their own languages? I don't know what experiences many of you regulars have had, some of you seem like bloody Esperanto 'gods' ha ha, but has this been a problem before? Is it a problem now?

I have to be honest though - a hardcopy Esperanto-Esperanto dictionary is looking quite useful now - unlike Italian and Spanish where the 'que' conjunctions etc are confusing, I'd say Esperanto's hardest feature is word building (on the flipside it does allow for creativity as said more or less before).

Miland (User's profile) December 12, 2008, 1:01:43 PM

ceigered: Maybe the biggest probably for Esperanto speakers is the irregularities and peculiar nature of their own languages? .. a hardcopy Esperanto-Esperanto dictionary is looking quite useful now
At the Universala Kongreso I spoke Esperanto with French people, Japanese and Brazilians who didn't speak English (nor I their languages). We couldn't have done that unless Esperanto were an effective common international language. That, to me, is a strong argument against attempting to develop regional dialects or slang based on shortcuts - it goes against Esperanto's essential purpose. No good being able to say "B'tag amik" or some other equivalent of "G'day, mate" if someone from Paris or Rio hasn't a clue what you mean.
Concerning Esperanto-Esperanto dictionaries, the best is of course the big and expensive PIV 2005, but you might be able to get hold of a used copy of the older, smaller and cheaper Plena Vortaro. Also for beginners there's Pilger's Baza Esperanta Radikaro, unfortunately not available at present in paper form but there is an online version.

mnlg (User's profile) December 12, 2008, 1:32:30 PM

ceigered:I was suprised to be asked the question 'Tu 6?' by an Italian over MSN (sei = six *or* are))...
It is fairly common here to use 6 in place of "sei" in sms-speech or when chatting. A funnier contraction is "6 1 0", you are nothing ridulo.gif

erinja (User's profile) December 12, 2008, 3:15:53 PM

ceigered, another common contraction in italian sms speech is x por "per" (as if you were multiplying, because you say "per" to multiply). Also + for piu'

A paper dictionary is very useful. The En-Eo/Eo-En dictionary by JC Wells is the best two-way dictionary for English-speakers. It has an awesome grammar guide at the front with lots of examples of how to say things. It's out of print but it's available used online. It's the "Teach Yourself" Esperanto dictionary. But look for the name Wells. There's a Teach Yourself book that is *not* the dictionary, and is not written by Wells.

ceigered (User's profile) December 13, 2008, 8:02:12 AM

Thanks mnlg, erinja, miland etc!

I'm still yet to find a store nearby that sells anything even slightly esperanto related (spare Shatner's bibliography).

Man, I thought 'c u l8r' was extreme! That 610 was funny though ridego.gif

610x610=610 ridulo.gif Makes no sense mathematically (but then again not much grammatically either).

erinja (User's profile) December 13, 2008, 5:48:40 PM

Even if you find something in a local shop, it won't likely be of any use. There is an "Esperanto pocket dictionary and phrasebook" that I used to commonly find in stores (though not anymore). It is a waste of money. Better to buy online, or to buy by post from your national Esperanto association.

Oŝo-Jabe (User's profile) October 28, 2009, 5:27:01 AM

erinja:Perhaps this is borne of beginners speaking among themselves, or of internet communication between beginners. In any case, I do not really find that fluent Esperanto speakers use 'stas, even if they are young, and even if they are speaking very informally.
While it is rare in spoken speech, this has found a place in literature. Mia Kontrabandulo, takes this to its natural conclusion making an "accent" for it.

The only constant rules are that words beginning with ne- instead begin with n'-, words starting with vowels have the initial vowel removed, and one syllable words always had the vowel removed. Other than that any vowel, except for the last and second to last, can be removed, and bonvol-, sinjoro, sinjorino, knabo were rendered as bo'vol-, s'joro, s'jorino, 'nabo.

I also think that consistency was sacrificed in cases where it would make the text too hard to read. So, "Mi estas nur unu knabo, sed tio sufiĉas" should become "M' 'stas nur 'nu 'nabo, s'd tio s'fiĉas" but instead may be "Mi 'stas nur unu 'nabo, sed tio sufiĉas."

Kiso (User's profile) October 28, 2009, 6:34:11 AM

shoko.gif
Esperanto wordoj estas longa to rememberas!

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