Sporočila: 11
Jezik: English
ceigered (Prikaži profil) 21. december 2008 15:36:50
I've written up a short piece of text, but I am not confident of how holeproof it is. Here is the text:
Mi pensas ke iPodoj estas utilaj por studentoj kaj ili (iPodoj) lasas la uzanton revui sian lernadon sen la bezono de grava studo.
Traduko/Translation (well, intended translation):
I think that iPods are useful for students and they (ipods) allow the user to review their learning sans the need of serious study.
My main gripe is the way 'lasi' and 'la uzanto' are meant to connect together (is a 'ke' required?), but everything else may also be prone to being bad Esperanto.
Also, can one use 'mava' instead of 'malbona' (with experienced speakers of course)?
Dankon kaj Gxis!
danielcg (Prikaži profil) 21. december 2008 15:55:50
First an English question: I've never seen the word "sans" used in English. Is it a borrowed word from French? Or was it just a language confusion, such as sometimes happens to me when writing in a language and quoting in another?
Now about the Esperanto text:
1) "revui" seems (see? I'd just typed "ŝajnas" and had to delete it) to come from the noun "revuo", which apparently has nothing to do with what you are trying to say. I think the suitable word would be "revizii" or maybe "kontroli".
2) The article in "sen la bezono" seems superfluous. I'd rather use "sen bezono" or "sen ia bezono". The latter seems a stronger affirmation of the lack of necessity.
3) "ili (ipodoj)" may be ommited, and in spite of the omission the sentence would flow more clearly. Just compare:
"ipodoj estas utilaj por studantoj kaj ili lasas...": it is not clear who are those "ili". That's why yo chose to clarify that by writing "ili (ipodoj)".
"ipodoj estas utilaj por studantoj kaj lasas...": there's no doubt that the subject of the verb "lasas" is the same of the verb "estas", i.e. "ipodoj".
4) "lasas" can be used, but I'd rather use "permesas" in one of the following ways:
... permesas la uzanton revizii...
... permesas al la uzanto revizii...
... permesas ke la uzanto reviziu...
(BTW, is the last u-tense correct? I feel it correct, but maybe it's the influence of the Spanish subjunctive mood, which is usually rendered as an imperative in Esperanto. My logic, however, protests that the tense should be infinitive or simple present. Any help?)
Regards,
Daniel
ceigered:Saluton all!
I've written up a short piece of text, but I am not confident of how holeproof it is. Here is the text:
Mi pensas ke iPodoj estas utilaj por studentoj kaj ili (iPodoj) lasas la uzanton revui sian lernadon sen la bezono de grava studo.
Traduko/Translation (well, intended translation):
I think that iPods are useful for students and they (ipods) allow the user to review their learning sans the need of serious study.
My main gripe is the way 'lasi' and 'la uzanto' are meant to connect together (is a 'ke' required?), but everything else may also be prone to being bad Esperanto.
Also, can one use 'mava' instead of 'malbona' (with experienced speakers of course)?
Dankon kaj Gxis!
erinja (Prikaži profil) 21. december 2008 18:16:16
Mi pensas ke tio suficxu (I think that should be enough)
Mi volas ke sxi dormu nun (I want her to sleep now)
We occasionally use "sans" in English. It's a French loanword. It's not very frequently used, at least not in American English. But we often speak of a "sans serif" font. I hear it used to add a certain je ne sais quoi. (Another bit of French occasionally used in English!) "It's our first time out, sans baby". It's colloquial, I wouldn't expect to see "sans" in writing, except for a direct French quote.
Frankouche (Prikaži profil) 21. december 2008 20:00:05
erinja:We occasionally use "sans" in English. It's a French loanword.I had never remarked this. How do you prononce it, sen, sense...?
Your exemple of "sans serif" is right. Do you say "avec serif" too ?
erinja (Prikaži profil) 21. december 2008 20:18:01
You have a sans serif font and a serif font. Definitely no "avec serif".
ceigered (Prikaži profil) 22. december 2008 03:35:56
And yeah sans was originally French but worked its way into English somehow and it's used interchangeable with 'without', but not as much (as Erinja said, although I'm inclined to argue that it isn't colloquial
). It's generally not used with the indefinite article (e.g. you would say 'sans monkeys' or 'sans monkey' instead of 'sans a monkey' or 'sans some monkeys').And also in addition to what Erinja said, it can also be pronounced 'sæ:nz' or 'sænz' (with the short English 'a') in Australia, not sure if this is found elsewhere :S
For frankouche, you can go here to find other French words in English in case you are curious, however there isn't an article in French, je suis très désolé
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_word...
Frankouche (Prikaži profil) 22. december 2008 03:47:37
"châteaux en Espagne"Pie in the sky" is so poetic
literally "castles in Spain"; imaginary projects, with little hope of realisation (means the same as "castles in the air" or "pie in the sky"
ceigered (Prikaži profil) 22. december 2008 04:21:08
Frankouche:Thank you for :I've always found it made me hungry"châteaux en Espagne"Pie in the sky" is so poetic
literally "castles in Spain"; imaginary projects, with little hope of realisation (means the same as "castles in the air" or "pie in the sky"
mmmm, meat pie... 
Taciturn_ (Prikaži profil) 22. december 2008 05:32:24
Matthieu (Prikaži profil) 22. december 2008 14:50:30
erinja:I hear it used to add a certain je ne sais quoi.
ceigered:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_word...Why do I bother writing in English? You already use so much French words.