Mesaĝoj: 35
Lingvo: English
andogigi (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-07 15:45:08
ceigered:I reckon I learn languages because it's like learning a different train of thought, a different way of thinking.The things that I find make Japanese such a unique language are the verb tenses. For example, Japanese does not have a future tense. You use the present tense and imply that something "will" happen in the future. They do, however, have a polite and an everyday tense. I always have to be very careful to use the correct verb ending to correspond with the social status of the person I'm talking to. Thus, the tone of ANY conversation in that language is immediately established the instant anyone begins to speak. I think this provides amazing insight into the Japanese culture.
For example, in Japanese you'd always put the object before the verb, so in a sense whenever an object is used, that object must be more important (in some sense or rather) than the verb that preceeds it. However in English, the object is generally last. Also in many languages, 'you' can be capitalised, but in English 'I' is capitalised. I'm not saying there's some conspiracy or that English speakers are arrogant, but languages are definitely an amazing insight into the minds of fellow humans (especially the ones critical in the evolution of them).
Example: I have your book
Everyday (semi-insulting)- Omae no hon ga aru
Everyday (superior speaking to inferior) - Kimi no hon ga aru.
Polite - Anata no hon ga arimasu.
Also, the Japanese have more ways to apologize than any language/culture I have ever encountered. This corresponds with their attitude of ensuring social harmony at all times. It is one of those nuanced things where translation into English doesn't really express the proper connotation or, sometimes, even the correct meaning.
alexbeard (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-07 22:06:01
my favorite thing is how "does anyone speak english?" is literally "is english possible?" 
Frankouche (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-07 23:23:38
I found the answer in a famous funny french movie : la vérité si je mens (eng. title : Would I Lie to You?)
- Tell me Patrick, how did you work with the americans with such a bad english ?
- Let me explain you : when i speak english, it's not for selling but for buying. So believe me, everybody understands me !
Jen mi faris etan subtitolitan kineron : la plej facila lingvo
vejktoro (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-08 01:55:49
The things that I find make Japanese such a unique language are the verb tenses. For example, Japanese does not have a future tense. You use the present tense and imply that something "will" happen in the future.Funny how we can find elements of a foreign language odd even though ours is the same.
There is no future tense in English either. Nor in any Germanic language. It goes way back to the ancient world view of Northern European Mythology.
We in English have only present or past tense forms to state that something somehow owes to or wants to become:
Must, could, may, might, should, shall, going to, would, will, ought to, have to... you get the point.
Not sure if that similarity makes Japanese any easier for us though!
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-08 08:15:37
). I have to say though that's the first time I've seen aru used like that, so thank you for unintentionally teaching me something very useful! @ alexbeard: I think '日本語を話しますか？' (Nihongo-o hanashimaska?) is acceptable as well, and that literally means 'speak japanese language?', which sounds clumsy but in Esperanto sounds much better IMHO (cxu Japanan lingvon parolas?)
@ vejktoro: I wouldn't say that we don't have a future tense, but it isn't an inflected future tense, rather future tense constructed using a modal verb (oddly, the one that used to mean 'I want' - once again another nuance of language
)I wonder if the original language English etc originally stem from (Proto-Pre-Indo-European
) was easy? 
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-08 14:38:35
Momomomomo:I'm told German I quite easy but I never learnt it because I didn't like the sound (or the German teacher)Uhm, I'm a native speaker of German - but I cannot imagine it being easy to learn for native speakers of English. It has a much more complicated grammar than, for example, French or Spanish, and sometimes even I (as a native speaker!) make some mistakes! If you want something extremely easy, don't learn German.
Frankouche (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-08 15:22:44
As french native speaker, i don't know if it's difficult to speak but i find the orthograph very hard (horror). Writing french is really an other language.
Rohan (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-08 15:37:40
ceigered:...which sounds clumsy but in Esperanto sounds much better IMHO (cxu Japanan lingvon parolas?)In Esperanto, since verbs are not conjugated for person, it's quite necessary to mention the subject. If someone were to ask me "Ĉu japanan lingvon parolas?", my response would almost certainly be, "Kiu, mi?".
Also, when you say 'japana lingvo', one could also interpret it as 'a Japanese language': i.e., a language spoken in Japan. I think that to pinpoint that language named 'Japanese' in English, one ought to insert a 'la'.
ciegered: I wonder if the original language English etc originally stem from (Proto-Pre-Indo-EuropeanI doubt it. We had Sanskrit for three years in school, and that was barely enough to enable us to hold the most meagre of conversations. But it's also true that the foolishly and impractically designed syllabus and the incompetent and unenthusiastic teachers played quite a major role in bringing that sorry state about...
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-08 15:54:20
Frankouche:German seems logical to me but was hard to learn (declinaisons, case).Yes, that's very much what I mean - it's extremely difficult to learn and sometimes even native speakers like me have to think about how to decline something.
As french native speaker, i don't know if it's difficult to speak but i find the orthograph very hard (horror). Writing french is really an other language.
As for French, je l'ai appris de 2006 .. uhm, I've learned that since 2006, and find that some (but not most) things are even easier than in English. In particular, if you only know how to spell (i.e. have to read it aloud) an English word that you don't know, you can't be sure at all how to pronounce it (and that can be extremely embarassing) - but in French, once you know the rules, you can be sure for most words.
vejktoro (Montri la profilon) 2009-januaro-08 17:21:38
@ vejktoro: I wouldn't say that we don't have a future tense, but it isn't an inflected future tense, rather future tense constructed using a modal verb (oddly, the one that used to mean 'I want' - once again another nuance of languageWell, it`s really all how things are defined isn`t it? English needed to borough a latin word to even talk about a 'future' tense.
I`m sure any native Japanese speaker, who hadn`t been told his language had no future tense would be suprised to find that out!
Of course, the Japanese and ourselves 'feel' a sense of 'future' in the devices we use to go where our conjugations won`t.
I suspect that, if left to develop on it`s own, the English language would loose the present tense 'volition marker' - "will" and end up with a verbal prefix like "ull-" to express the yet-to-be.
Ceigered, this does tie back to your post here about a look inside the speakers' minds. But the story behind germanic verbs has little to do with this thread. Perhaps we`ll blather on about it in some future post.
Finally, from what I know of Old English and *Proto Germanic, it ain`t any easier. Those languages where quite heavily declined compared to modern English.