Aportes: 3
Idioma: English
Farikos (Mostrar perfil) 16 de enero de 2009 05:09:29
...with prepositions.
Not with the concept, mind you. That's easy.
I just never know which ones to use. I have this problem in German as well, but mostly because German uses entirely different prepositions for their expressions (in German, you are "proud on" someone or "at MySpace," etc).
With Esperanto, I will make an entry into Vortaro and get, oh, four responses, which I then have to choose from. And I am so often not right. And it's terrible. It makes me look dumb. O_o
Does anyone have any advice? Help? Suggestions?
Not with the concept, mind you. That's easy.
I just never know which ones to use. I have this problem in German as well, but mostly because German uses entirely different prepositions for their expressions (in German, you are "proud on" someone or "at MySpace," etc).
With Esperanto, I will make an entry into Vortaro and get, oh, four responses, which I then have to choose from. And I am so often not right. And it's terrible. It makes me look dumb. O_o
Does anyone have any advice? Help? Suggestions?
RiotNrrd (Mostrar perfil) 16 de enero de 2009 06:18:53
The rule I use is:
If the preposition to use is completely clear, use it. If you are talking about something that is physically ON something, use "sur". If it is actually IN something, use "en". And so on. Each preposition except "je" has a distinct meaning, and so when you actually want its particular meaning, use it.
Next, if you could use any of a number of prepositions in your sentence and they all seem like they would work, that means the preposition is only being used for its structural function and not its literal meaning. In this case, you have a couple of choices of what to do.
1) Use "je". That's what it's for. It is basically a filler for a preposition without actually specifying one. Syntactically it functions as a preposition as part of the structure of the sentence, but that's all it does. It's meaning is irrelevant.
2) Take the noun that follows the preposition you are trying to construct, turn it into an adverb, and leave the preposition completely out. For example, you want to say "sur seĝo", but "en" would work just as well, and you don't really care which is actually meant: you can just use "seĝe".
Because both methods remove the preposition (and therefore the information it conveys, if any), make sure that by removing it you aren't making the sentence unclear. These two methods are really only to be used when using one specific preposition over another wouldn't make much difference - when the literal meaning of the preposition doesn't actually add any value to the meaning of the sentence. In English, it's amazing how often that is exactly the case; these are some of the ways to work translations of those cases.
If the preposition to use is completely clear, use it. If you are talking about something that is physically ON something, use "sur". If it is actually IN something, use "en". And so on. Each preposition except "je" has a distinct meaning, and so when you actually want its particular meaning, use it.
Next, if you could use any of a number of prepositions in your sentence and they all seem like they would work, that means the preposition is only being used for its structural function and not its literal meaning. In this case, you have a couple of choices of what to do.
1) Use "je". That's what it's for. It is basically a filler for a preposition without actually specifying one. Syntactically it functions as a preposition as part of the structure of the sentence, but that's all it does. It's meaning is irrelevant.
2) Take the noun that follows the preposition you are trying to construct, turn it into an adverb, and leave the preposition completely out. For example, you want to say "sur seĝo", but "en" would work just as well, and you don't really care which is actually meant: you can just use "seĝe".
Because both methods remove the preposition (and therefore the information it conveys, if any), make sure that by removing it you aren't making the sentence unclear. These two methods are really only to be used when using one specific preposition over another wouldn't make much difference - when the literal meaning of the preposition doesn't actually add any value to the meaning of the sentence. In English, it's amazing how often that is exactly the case; these are some of the ways to work translations of those cases.
alexbeard (Mostrar perfil) 16 de enero de 2009 13:59:41
Here: http://en.lernu.net/lernado/gramatiko/konciza/prep...
That is a pretty good explanation, a lot of memorizing though. But it's worth it if you really want to speak esperanto well
That is a pretty good explanation, a lot of memorizing though. But it's worth it if you really want to speak esperanto well