russ:I am surprised to hear about ŝr being hard for different people. It never seemed particularly troublesome to me. The sequence exists in English, even at the beginning of words as in ŝraŭbo: shrapnel, shred, shrewd, shriek, shrill, shrimp, shrine, shrink, shrivel, shroud, shrub, shrug... Of course you need to do it with the Esperanto r, not the English r, but issues with learning Esperanto r are independent from ŝr in particular (i.e., if you're having trouble rolling your r, that's going to be a problem in every sequence with r, not just in ŝr).

I'm pretty sure that those having trouble with ŝraŭbo mainly have the issue because of the /r/. Both the British and American /r/ effectively takes place of a vowel in that position. When rolled (I prefer the analogy to the Spanish /r/), the vowel is missing prompting people to insert one.

ilya:

russ:I am surprised to hear about ŝr being hard for different people. It never seemed particularly troublesome to me. The sequence exists in English, even at the beginning of words as in ŝraŭbo: shrapnel, shred, shrewd, shriek, shrill, shrimp, shrine, shrink, shrivel, shroud, shrub, shrug... Of course you need to do it with the Esperanto r, not the English r, but issues with learning Esperanto r are independent from ŝr in particular (i.e., if you're having trouble rolling your r, that's going to be a problem in every sequence with r, not just in ŝr).

I'm pretty sure that those having trouble with ŝraŭbo mainly have the issue because of the /r/. Both the British and American /r/ effectively takes place of a vowel in that position. When rolled (I prefer the analogy to the Spanish /r/), the vowel is missing prompting people to insert one.

It`s the /r/.
And where the /r/ is.

English is my first language, and my first /r/ was the English retroflex. But I can roll an /r/ up one side and down the other. Front, back, flap, tap, uvular, fricative, you name it I can do it.

BUT,
Ŝ - R - AŬ is hard. Slows me down all the time. I think maybe the English 'shr' combo is executed almost as one sound by us natives, so we have to pull them apart and start from scratch. Anticipate the Esperanto /r/ before even uttering the /ŝ/. The /aŭ/ doesn`t help either. I find the sequence *ŝri a bit easier.

Now, I want everyone to say this wonderful word for "wrench" and try not to giggle.

ŝraŭbŝlosilo.

Our esteemed Doctor had high hopes indeed!

But don't you think it's awesome to sound like you're speaking Polish or Russian without actually learning those languages?

Rogir:But don't you think it's awesome to sound like you're speaking Polish or Russian without actually learning those languages?

Yes, it is kinda fun.

So when they (the Russians and the Polish) want to fake some English, is it the retroflex /r/ and a few wobbly vowels that do the trick?

Well, I do know that we try to sound British, we pretend to have a hot potato in our mouth while speaking. And to sound American we pretend to have a cold (speak with closed nasal channels).

Rogir:Well, I do know that we try to sound British, we pretend to have a hot potato in our mouth while speaking..

Whatever works, so long as you don't have to work too hard.