By the way, why numerals don't take the accusative form ?

If they did, it won't do a exception rule.

- cxu vi vidas ilin ?
- mi vidas unu

(what about : mi unu vidas, unu mi vidas)

The lack of the accusative with numerals, and "two nominative forms" seem still strange to me.

"Frankouche":The lack of the accusative with numerals, and "two nominative forms" seem still strange to me.

PMEG kunsentas kun via vidpunkto pri la ioma strangeco, sed eksplikas bonajn kialojn por tio...

PMEG":Estas vero, ke la regulo, kiu malpermesas *unun*, sed permesas unujn, estas stranga el vidpunkto de logiko. Sed ĝi estas tre bona el vidpunkto de praktika uzado. En la praktiko la nombra, unikeca kaj individueca uzoj de unu ne estas klare distingeblaj. Estas multaj limokazoj, kaj tial la simpla regulo, ke unu neniam havu N-finaĵon, estas tre praktika. Oni ne bezonas cerbumi ĉiufoje, ĉu unu montras nombron, unikecon aŭ individuecon. Unuj tamen ĉiam montras individuecon aŭ unikecon, kaj tial ne estas problemo uzi post ĝi N-finaĵon, se la frazrolo tion postulas. Uzado de *unun* kaŭzus nur konfuzon sen alporti multe da praktika utilo.

http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/nombroj/vorte...

Just a reminder, this is the English forum. You can write in any language, but please include an English translation, because we have beginners here.

Uzado de *unun* kaŭzus nur konfuzon sen alporti multe da praktika utilo.

Tiu ne tre klaras. Mi povos diri ke por francaj, anglaj denaskuloj, la n-akuzativo "kaŭzas nur konfuzon sen alporti multe da praktika utilo..."

Bonvolu, vi donu bonajn ekzemplojn.

Rhaaa, i forget to write in english

...Using *unun* makes confusion without giving any practikal use

This is not clear. I could say that for french and english speakers, the mark of accusativ "n" can "make confusion without giving any practical utility".

Please give some exemples.

Hi

Again, please write in English, since this is the English forum. Feel free to write in Esperanto, just include an English translation with it.

tommjames:

"Frankouche":The lack of the accusative with numerals, and "two nominative forms" seem still strange to me.

PMEG kunsentas kun via vidpunkto pri la ioma strangeco, sed eksplikas bonajn kialojn por tio...

PMEG":Estas vero, ke la regulo, kiu malpermesas *unun*, sed permesas unujn, estas stranga el vidpunkto de logiko. Sed ĝi estas tre bona el vidpunkto de praktika uzado. En la praktiko la nombra, unikeca kaj individueca uzoj de unu ne estas klare distingeblaj. Estas multaj limokazoj, kaj tial la simpla regulo, ke unu neniam havu N-finaĵon, estas tre praktika. Oni ne bezonas cerbumi ĉiufoje, ĉu unu montras nombron, unikecon aŭ individuecon. Unuj tamen ĉiam montras individuecon aŭ unikecon, kaj tial ne estas problemo uzi post ĝi N-finaĵon, se la frazrolo tion postulas. Uzado de *unun* kaŭzus nur konfuzon sen alporti multe da praktika utilo.

http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/nombroj/vorte...

Translation for beginners:

PMEG agrees with your opinion concerning the little oddity, but gives/explains a good reason for that...

PMEG":It's true that the rule, which forbids *unun* but allows unujn, is strange from a logical point of view. But it is very good from a practical point of view. In the practice the number, uniqueness and individuality uses of unu are not clearly distinguishable. There are many limitations, and therefore the simple rule, that unu never has an N-ending, is very practical. You don't need to think ('rack your brain') each time, about whether unu shows a number, uniqueness or individuality. Unuj however always shows individuality or uniqueness and therefore there isn't a problem with using after it an N-ending, if the sentence role requires that. A use of *unun* causes only confusion without bringing a lot of practical. benefits.

Translators note: There's my 10 cents worth (it would have been 5 cents if it weren't for inflation). Sorry if I made errors translating.

I don't see the problem if "unu" in all cases could take the n-accusative...

- Cxu vi vidas ilin ?
- Mi vidas unun
- Mi vidas unun ulon
- Dun ? - Ne, unun.

The only problem i see is if i say, "take (only) a one" (for instance in a cards game), prenu unun unun ?

Frankouche:I don't see the problem if "unu" in all cases could take the n-accusative...

- Cxu vi vidas ilin ?
- Mi vidas unun
- Mi vidas unun ulon
- Dun ? - Ne, unun.

The only problem i see is if i say, "take (only) a one" (for instance in a cards game), prenu unun unun ?

I think its just to prevent confusion with those who speak languages where there is no accusative marker like 'n' and where 'one' (as in an individual object) is defined by a word that isn't the same as 'one' (as a number).

I think the -us ending can signify politness in some cases, especially with 'I would want' etc, because its effectively a shortening of 'I would (if the oppurtunity was indeed presented to me)', and therefore its a kind of humble, 'I don't want to offend you by expressing my desire etc for something that may not be possible' thing to say, only much shorter.

So 'Mi deziras ludi per mia Nintendo' (is it per? I never know with this kind of video-game related vocabulary) would be 'I want to play with my Nintendo' (which as a default assumes that it is indeed possible to play the Nintendo and that you will be allowed to).
However, 'Mi dezirus ludi per mia Nintendo', with the -us ending means that you are not assuming that it is necessarily ok to play the nintendo, but you still want to - even if you are 100% that you can indeed go and hop on the nintendo, you are still making sure it is alright with others.

The same kind of 'pretending to be unsure of conditions in order to be polite' thing is also in German (Ich möchte) and French (je voudrais) and even Japanese (at least I think it's done this way: コーヒーを飲みませんか？ - You don't drink coffee?).
Out of these, French uses the Conditional mood, German the subjunctive, English the pseudo-conditional mood, and Japanese (in this particular case) just assumes 'no' for added politeness (although my uncertainty about the Japanese means I should go review tonight).

Anyway thats the way I think of it.

The conditional is occasionally used in Esperanto to show politeness, but this normally isn't done with every verb, at least in my experience. And it's normally accompanied by something else that makes it clear that it's a polite request.

Frankly, people don't speak as politely in Esperanto (or probably in any language) as they used to. As far as conditionals to show politeness, I rarely hear anything beyond, for example, "Mi ŝatus havi iom da kafo" (I would like to have some coffee). This makes it clear through context that it's a polite request. "Mi trinkus iom da kafo" doesn't sound like a request to me; it sounds like the beginning of an excuse.