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Canadians Born Overseas.

od Senlando, 3 marca 2009

Wpisy: 32

Język: English

andogigi (Pokaż profil) 11 marca 2009, 08:59:29

Frankouche:
andogigi:I'm sure most countries do something similar, don't they?
In France, there is a wellcome ceremony of naturalisation (if the administration has the time to do it...), but no oath (maybe because of memories of WWII with very bad guys). Some people, in France, perhaps would say that "why should a naturalised person swear something and not a from-birth person" ?
That's a good point. I suppose our two cultures have different ways of thinking about it. I think the logic is that we wouldn't want someone becoming a citizen here if they had motives to do us harm or injure us. I'm surprised that other countries do not emphasize the ceremony as much. In America, many immigrants take it very seriously. They invite their friends and family and everyone receives a flag. There is often a party afterwards. I used to know judges who actually performed the ceremony and they said it was one of the most enjoyable parts of their job. They used to argue over which judge would have the opportunity to give the oath to the new citizens.

One of the interesting things about naturalization is that all applicants must pass an American history test before they can become citizens. It was discovered that many Americans could not pass the same history test that we gave to immigrants. (very embarrassing) Perhaps we should have an oath ceremony for our own people! rido.gif rido.gif

Miland (Pokaż profil) 11 marca 2009, 10:58:48

Britain introduced a citizenship ceremony in 2004.

Rogir (Pokaż profil) 11 marca 2009, 20:16:12

Just a small question about the oath. Is the last part 'so help me God' obligatory or only if you're christian?

Senlando (Pokaż profil) 11 marca 2009, 23:15:28

Rogir:Just a small question about the oath. Is the last part 'so help me God' obligatory or only if you're christian?
Do you mean presidential inogeration oath?

"So help me God" was never officially part of the inogeration oath. I believe it was Washington (though not exactly sure)who slapped it at the end of his oath, and since then every president has done so. But you see if one president doesn't do it, everyone would think he doesn't believe in God or at least thinks he doesn't need Gods help to be president, which in the USA wouldn't go well with many people. So although, its not officially part of the oath, it's pretty much required if a president wants to keep his image up with the theists. And the majority of Americans are to some degree theists. So it's really just a matter of looking good. So to answer your question, it is obligatory if you want to get re-elected.

Rogir (Pokaż profil) 11 marca 2009, 23:57:22

Andogigi quoted this:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

I wonder if the last line is obligatory.

erinja (Pokaż profil) 12 marca 2009, 00:52:29

The American citizenship test is a joke. They give you the questions beforehand, you just have to learn the answers. My mom mostly grew up in the US, so she thought the test would be easy. She found when she got the question and answer list that it is easy, but only if you have a very simplistic view of the world. So essentially, you just have to memorize the government's simplistic answers. For example, there was a question, "What was the cause of the Civil War?" A well-educated person would expound on the ideas of state's rights versus a strong federal government, an agrarian South that depended on slaves and an industrial North that did not, etc. But the official answer to the question is "slavery". What is the Constitution? was another question. The official answer, if I remember right, is "the supreme law of the land". The requirement to speak English is accomplished by writing a simple English sentence; they tell you a sentence, and you write it. I know people who barely speak English, who still passed. "What is independence day?". It's a vague question, and you could answer by saying that it's the day when the Declaration of Independence was signed, or when the signing was publicized, or whatever. But the official answer is "The 4th of July". You catch my meaning.

Regarding the British citizenship test, I never took it because I got citizenship through my mother, but I understand that it has all kinds of obscure cultural questions, and takes some studying to pass, unlike the simplistic questions on the US exam. Interestingly, apparently the UK has two versions of the citizenship oath - a religious one and a non-religious one, so you can choose whichever you're comfortable with.

andogigi (Pokaż profil) 12 marca 2009, 03:22:46

Rogir:

I wonder if the last line is obligatory.
I'm not sure about the last line. I know the part about "bearing arms" is optional, though.

Senlando (Pokaż profil) 12 marca 2009, 04:19:08

Rogir:Andogigi quoted this:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

I wonder if the last line is obligatory.
Ah, sorry i guess I missed that part. I didn't know that that line was also part of the citizenship pledge, but I guess they could add it when they came up with the citizen pledge.

Is their a place online where one could take the US citizanship quiz? I was educated with american cericulem, and have always found history easy and geography easy, so i'm pritty sure i could pass it.

Last year I took the Canadian citizenship quiz just for fun, and I passed it, even though i know more about the US, and very little about Canada. (but the test was multiple choice so, it's not that hard).

here's one place you can take the Canadian test if interested.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/becomingcanadian/self_citiz...

I did find some questions really stupid and irrelevant in my opinion, to becoming a Canadian, but others where good. I think though, perhaps they should ask more up to date questions, so that people have to know whats going on "now" in the country not 100-300 years ago. So that anyone who pays attention to the news, should have a good chance off doing well in the Test.

Rogir (Pokaż profil) 12 marca 2009, 10:56:34

I got 12/20, enough to allow me to become a citizen of Canada, without any study and mostly random guessing. Not a very good test.

ceigered (Pokaż profil) 12 marca 2009, 11:26:58

Rogir:I got 12/20, enough to allow me to become a citizen of Canada, without any study and mostly random guessing. Not a very good test.
Doing better than me, I kept on getting 10's and 11's. I get all the parliament style questions (coming from a Commonwealth country) but other things just go over my head - how am meant to know where the best oranges come from? lango.gif (of course, if I read the info guide they give you before hand it would be easier I guess).

Dunno if Australia still has the English proficiency test anymore, I think that got ditched when we became multi-cultural (I remember hearing that they used to exclude people by testing them in what ever language they *couldn't* do, e.g. an Indian tries to get citizenship, speaks perfect English, so they try to make him speak German).

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