Contribuții/Mesaje: 32
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Senlando (Arată profil) 3 martie 2009, 05:40:13
If the topic applies to you, our you agree with the unfairness of the Citizenship law that is to be enacted on April 17 2009, please sign this petition.
The new law states that Canadians born overseas to Canadian citizens, loose there right to pass down citizenship, in affect, making them second class citizens. This does not affect naturalized Canadians, therefore making a Canadian born overseas to Canadians less of a Canadian then Canadians who got citizenship when they where adults. The law doesn't not take into account peoples connection to Canada, but only looks a at their birthplace. This law would also make many people born stateless if they where born (like in my case) in a country that doesn't allow citizenship to be obtained due to birth in the country. So please if you are a Canadian, and especially if you where born overseas, please sign the petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/cexpat01/petition.ht...
The new law states that Canadians born overseas to Canadian citizens, loose there right to pass down citizenship, in affect, making them second class citizens. This does not affect naturalized Canadians, therefore making a Canadian born overseas to Canadians less of a Canadian then Canadians who got citizenship when they where adults. The law doesn't not take into account peoples connection to Canada, but only looks a at their birthplace. This law would also make many people born stateless if they where born (like in my case) in a country that doesn't allow citizenship to be obtained due to birth in the country. So please if you are a Canadian, and especially if you where born overseas, please sign the petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/cexpat01/petition.ht...
erinja (Arată profil) 3 martie 2009, 23:17:07
I don't know anything about this specific law but are you sure that it allows you to be born stateless? I know that a lot of laws of this nature have a special "statelessness" clause that allows the citizenship to be passed on if the child would be otherwise stateless.
I am somewhat familiar with this issue from the UK side, because I'm a British citizen by descent, and also not able to pass on this citizenship (though that's fine because I'm a US citizen by birth, which I can pass on). I know that in the case of a child of UK citizens by descent, if the child would otherwise be stateless, the child can get UK citizenship by descent, although it would normally not be allowed. I think that most Western countries make some kind of special allowance to prevent statelessness from occurring, and I would be surprised if Canada didn't do this as well.
I am somewhat familiar with this issue from the UK side, because I'm a British citizen by descent, and also not able to pass on this citizenship (though that's fine because I'm a US citizen by birth, which I can pass on). I know that in the case of a child of UK citizens by descent, if the child would otherwise be stateless, the child can get UK citizenship by descent, although it would normally not be allowed. I think that most Western countries make some kind of special allowance to prevent statelessness from occurring, and I would be surprised if Canada didn't do this as well.
Senlando (Arată profil) 4 martie 2009, 01:37:04
I thought as you did, but from every bit of information I could find on the law, it doesn't say anything about granting citizenship to people who would otherwise become stateless. What is written about the law on the government website, has no "Stateless" clause. It is possible that it would be covered under a different law, but as of yet I haven't found it (if anyone can find info on that please let me know).
a link to the Government Website about the new law...
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules-cit...
a link to Canadian Counsel for Refugees...
http://www.ccrweb.ca/documents/citizenship09.htm
I understand why some things in the law are a good idea (like trying to prevent people from using citizenship as a safety net) but the law leaves out many other people who are fully Canadian, but just so happen to work overseas, and want to raise their kids in a multilingual environment.
They should amend the law so it doesn't affect people who aren't duel citizens (at least!).
The law just seems badly thought out, and It seems like a repeat of when they took away citizenship from many foreign war brides. Another citizenship law that was badly though out. And if they are going to make 2 classes of Citizenship (those who can pass down citizenship and those who can't) at least give those who can't a chance to upgrade to "full citizenship" for example X amount of years living in Canada. In many ways Canada has very liberal Citizenship laws since it's a nation of immigrants (unlike my birth country) but this new law, takes a major step backwards in my opinion.
a link to the Government Website about the new law...
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules-cit...
a link to Canadian Counsel for Refugees...
http://www.ccrweb.ca/documents/citizenship09.htm
I understand why some things in the law are a good idea (like trying to prevent people from using citizenship as a safety net) but the law leaves out many other people who are fully Canadian, but just so happen to work overseas, and want to raise their kids in a multilingual environment.
They should amend the law so it doesn't affect people who aren't duel citizens (at least!).
The law just seems badly thought out, and It seems like a repeat of when they took away citizenship from many foreign war brides. Another citizenship law that was badly though out. And if they are going to make 2 classes of Citizenship (those who can pass down citizenship and those who can't) at least give those who can't a chance to upgrade to "full citizenship" for example X amount of years living in Canada. In many ways Canada has very liberal Citizenship laws since it's a nation of immigrants (unlike my birth country) but this new law, takes a major step backwards in my opinion.
erinja (Arată profil) 4 martie 2009, 02:19:58
You can't "upgrade" UK citizenship by descent either. I guess your only choice to make sure your kids are born as full citizens is to keep living in the target country; the UK in my case (where I've never lived), Canada in yours.
Senlando (Arată profil) 4 martie 2009, 04:48:45
erinja:You can't "upgrade" UK citizenship by descent either. I guess your only choice to make sure your kids are born as full citizens is to keep living in the target country; the UK in my case (where I've never lived), Canada in yours.Unfortunately it looks like that's my only choice since i only have one citizenship, although this law makes me reconsider perhaps i should renounce my Canadian citizenship so that I can obtain Taiwanese...
Btw Erinja, do you know anything about the "right to abode" laws of the UK, from what i know is if a grandparent was born in the UK (in my case Scotland) one is eligible (if from a commonwealth country) to apply for the right to live and work in the UK. Do you know anyone who has tried to move to the UK under that law? I would really love to live in Britain for a few years, as a third generation immigrant (every generation a different continent!) it would be interesting to see where 3/4s of my grandparents came from.
erinja (Arată profil) 5 martie 2009, 02:57:32
I don't know anyone who has moved to the UK under right to abode laws.
I don't know much about the topic but I did a little reading after you asked your question. As a person whose grandparent (but not parent) was born in the UK, you do not have right to abode. However, because you are a Commonwealth citizen with a UK grandparent, you have the right to live in the UK for up to 5 years, and after that, you can petition to be allowed to stay indefinitely. So based on Wikipedia, it sounds like 5 years or less is no problem at all.
The Commonwealth and the legacy of colonialism has left the UK with one of the most complicated citizenship laws on the planet. In this case though, you are helped by being a Canadian citizen.
I would not renounce your Canadian citizenship in favor of Taiwanese; I think that would be short-sighted, even in view of this new citizenship law. Canadian citizenship is much more valuable in the sense of unrestricted travel. A Canadian can visit many more countries without a visa than a Taiwanese. And regarding children, remember that your future wife will also have a say in this. She may have a citizenship that she can pass on, even in case the kid is not born in a country that automatically confers citizenship. It's a little early to start freaking out over it.
I don't know much about the topic but I did a little reading after you asked your question. As a person whose grandparent (but not parent) was born in the UK, you do not have right to abode. However, because you are a Commonwealth citizen with a UK grandparent, you have the right to live in the UK for up to 5 years, and after that, you can petition to be allowed to stay indefinitely. So based on Wikipedia, it sounds like 5 years or less is no problem at all.
The Commonwealth and the legacy of colonialism has left the UK with one of the most complicated citizenship laws on the planet. In this case though, you are helped by being a Canadian citizen.
I would not renounce your Canadian citizenship in favor of Taiwanese; I think that would be short-sighted, even in view of this new citizenship law. Canadian citizenship is much more valuable in the sense of unrestricted travel. A Canadian can visit many more countries without a visa than a Taiwanese. And regarding children, remember that your future wife will also have a say in this. She may have a citizenship that she can pass on, even in case the kid is not born in a country that automatically confers citizenship. It's a little early to start freaking out over it.
Senlando (Arată profil) 5 martie 2009, 05:40:42
It's a little early to start freaking out over it.I agree, since i really don't know what or where I'm going to end up. I've always seen myself as a global nomad, and I don't think i can settle down in Canada for much longer then university. The main reason why i am so stressed about this law, is my whole life, I've been a "foreigner" in my home country, and now that I've returned to my passport country, they make my citizenship worth less then other Canadians (making me feel again like a foreigner).
As for renouncing my Canadian citizenship, I've always dreamed about the idea of being "officially" Taiwanese. But I'm also not completely irrational. This decision will not be taken lightly, and it will only be taken if i end up settling down (if i ever do that) in Taiwan. And probably after the age of 36? since i don't think I could last in the army, oh and also if President Ma doesn't sell out the country to China before I get back. (lol there's lots of "ifs" as you can see).
And really, for my dreams of traveling the world, theirs probably not many passports more valuable then Canada's (Commonwealth+ not hated my too many countries).
As for the right to live in the UK, i just need to find how i get a copy of my grandmas birth certificate.
ceigered (Arată profil) 5 martie 2009, 06:16:30
erinja:Don't we all know it - I'm still clueless as to where or how I'm meant to go about dual-citizenship passport, or even if it still exists for half-Australian half-English persons (in fact, I don't even know if that's the right word).
The Commonwealth and the legacy of colonialism has left the UK with one of the most complicated citizenship laws on the planet. In this case though, you are helped by being a Canadian citizen.
What I might try doing, and I would encourage you to do this too, Senlando, is go onto Yahoo! Answers and ask the community that question, you are bound to receive many answers from other interested parties.
EL_NEBULOSO (Arată profil) 5 martie 2009, 06:27:45
Hi,
usually the citizenship is based on the place of birth (like in the US), the citizenship of the parents, or a mixture of both. Some countries rather easily allow dual citizenship, others don't.
Anyway, in Europe we have the joke that in the US a cat that is born in a dog's house is supposed to be a dog (by US law)
.
A friend of mine is German, his wife is Italian and since she lived in Germany most of her life, she also has the German citizenship.
They both worked in the US (where I met them) and she gave birth to a little boy. Now the boy has triple citizenship.
Gerald
usually the citizenship is based on the place of birth (like in the US), the citizenship of the parents, or a mixture of both. Some countries rather easily allow dual citizenship, others don't.
Anyway, in Europe we have the joke that in the US a cat that is born in a dog's house is supposed to be a dog (by US law)
.A friend of mine is German, his wife is Italian and since she lived in Germany most of her life, she also has the German citizenship.
They both worked in the US (where I met them) and she gave birth to a little boy. Now the boy has triple citizenship.
Gerald
Senlando (Arată profil) 5 martie 2009, 07:56:21
EL_NEBULOSO:Hi,I'd be cool to have a few citizenships, although some of them might cause some extra complication, for instance doesn't the US require all its citizens no mater where they live to do income tax every year? or at least that's what i heard. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me if your not a resident of the US. But that is just hear-say, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
usually the citizenship is based on the place of birth (like in the US), the citizenship of the parents, or a mixture of both. Some countries rather easily allow dual citizenship, others don't.
Anyway, in Europe we have the joke that in the US a cat that is born in a dog's house is supposed to be a dog (by US law)
A friend of mine is German, his wife is Italian and since she lived in Germany most of her life, she also has the German citizenship.
They both worked in the US (where I met them) and she gave birth to a little boy. Now the boy has triple citizenship.
Gerald
Also citizenship to 1 EU country seems just as good as multiple EU citizenships in my opinion, but that is also based on limited information. To me, being able to live and work freely without having to apply for a visa, is a great benefit almost equal to citizenship. I wish more countries would have more freedom of movement between their people without actually having to loose sovereignty,
Ceigered, Doesn't Australia, and NZ have a similar agreement where their people can work in each others countries? To bad the whole commonwealth doesn't do that, if they did, the EU would have nothing over the CU.
