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In the Land of Invented Languages

af richardhall, 1. jun. 2009

Meddelelser: 43

Sprog: English

roint (Vise profilen) 3. jun. 2009 19.58.32

Yeah, linguistics has little to do with the cultural aspects of language, so it's odd that a linguistics professor would take it upon themselves to write a book like this. There doesn't seem to be much of anything insightful about it, judging from the excerpt from the Esperanto section of the book on her website. It read more like a snide teenager's blog entry than any kind of book I would be interested in reading, no matter what attitude it might have toward Esperanto.

RiotNrrd (Vise profilen) 4. jun. 2009 03.04.27

tommjames:That reminds me of when Noam Chomsky declared Esperanto to be "not a language".
Don't forget that he also said (during the same interview) that it was "based on Spanish".

So... clearly Noam doesn't know anything about Esperanto. But why should that stop him from making sweeping assertions about it?

russ (Vise profilen) 4. jun. 2009 11.17.24

Miland:I'm less sure. Her website's biography refers to "losers like Esperanto and Klingon", although she goes on to say:
"Initial feelings of pity and revulsion gave way to fascination and affection, and she embarked on a whirlwind romance with the history of invented languages. The love child of this passion is her book In the Land of Invented Languages."
I take the "losers" comment to be referring to how mainstream culture and linguists perceive the languages. Obviously she herself doesn't have a negative attitude toward them, or why would she describe herself as having "fascination and affection, and she embarked on a whirlwind romance" and "passion"? Also she'd not have invested time and energy in learning Klingon (and presumably Esperanto to some degree) and attending events related to Klingon and Esperanto. There will also supposedly be an interview with her in an upcoming issue of the Esperanto-USA Bulletin.

I'd criticize her for taking too much of a flippant "pop culture" approach to the book and its marketing, but I don't perceive her as being against Esperanto, based on all I've read (reviews of the book and interviews etc).

richardhall (Vise profilen) 4. jun. 2009 15.57.14

There's a worthwhile and (mostly) good-natured conversation following the Salon review of this book.

andogigi (Vise profilen) 4. jun. 2009 20.13.05

tommjames:
That reminds me of when Noam Chomsky declared Esperanto to be "not a language". I guess that depends on how you define language.
I was always told that a language is defined by the speakers.

For example, if you placed a Serb and a Croat in the same room together, they would have no problem understanding each other. (Although, the two would use different scripts). However, many Serbians and Croatians would swear that they speak different languages and will argue vehemently with you if you try to tell them otherwise. (If you don't believe me, give it a try sometime. I've been through this before)

Likewise, a Mandarin and a Cantonese speaker in the same room would have a miserable time understanding each other (although, they would use the same script) and would equally swear that they were both speaking Chinese.

Hence, what defines a language as a language depends upon what the language's speakers have to say about it. Since we Esperantists are convinced that we are speaking a language amongst ourselves, how can Esperanto be defined any differently than Serbian, Croatian, or Chinese?

Chomsky might be a brilliant linguist, but he has a lot to learn. (about politics, Esperanto, and other things)

Miland (Vise profilen) 4. jun. 2009 22.44.26

hiyayaywhopee:I thought I read an interview of this Arika Okrent that made her seem decent enough, but I can't find it so I may just be imagining things.
You are not imagining things. Here is a link to the interview with Arika Okrent! (Click the button "Listen to this show"). It's about planned languages in general.

andogigi (Vise profilen) 12. jun. 2009 01.44.26

Since this discussion was first posted, I've downloaded the book and have read about 50% of it. To be honest, I've found the author to be fairly respectful of all the languages she deals with. She doesn't always appreciate the motives for which various conlangs were designed, but she does show a great deal of respect for the hard work and the ingenuity that went into making them. I'm not sure we could ask for much more.

I'm really enjoying the book. It is filled with interesting information and I'm learning quite a bit. I definitely recommend it.

jan aleksan (Vise profilen) 12. jun. 2009 08.01.27

andogigi:Since this discussion was first posted, I've downloaded the book and have read about 50% of it. To be honest, I've found the author to be fairly respectful of all the languages she deals with. She doesn't always appreciate the motives for which various conlangs were designed, but she does show a great deal of respect for the hard work and the ingenuity that went into making them. I'm not sure we could ask for much more.

I'm really enjoying the book. It is filled with interesting information and I'm learning quite a bit. I definitely recommend it.
How could you download it?

andogigi (Vise profilen) 12. jun. 2009 10.22.45

jan aleksan:
How could you download it?
I have a Sony E-book reader. It is a little bit like Amazon's Kindle. I paid for it on Sony's site and downloaded it.

jan aleksan (Vise profilen) 16. jun. 2009 09.19.45

Hereis a podcast interview. Unfortunately the sound is a bit bad.

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