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About Esperanto and its Culture

od esperanto_yeah, 04. februar 2007

Sporočila: 10

Jezik: English

esperanto_yeah (Prikaži profil) 04. februar 2007 01:50:28

I have recently come across with an argument about Esperanto that it was originally planned as the ultimate international language yet it failed to become so, and today most of the Esperanto learners are very interesting people due to their unaccustomed interests of learning a language with few speakers. So supposedly all these interesting people have created an interesting alternative culture. I feel that this is somewhat true yet I have been learning E-o for a short time so my questions are:
Do you believe there is such a Esperantist culture that has specific values, that bonds people in the way any similarly as a national language would? If so what are some characteristics of Esperanto culture? I am so interested in them...
And do you believe that Esperanto has completely lost its hope to increase its speakers by large numbers but slowly becoming more and more of a secret club?

Edvaldo Sachett (Prikaži profil) 04. februar 2007 05:25:53

Sporočilo je skrito

awake (Prikaži profil) 04. februar 2007 14:58:18

The success of Esperanto (or lack thereof) is a relative thing. If you judge it by the ultimate goal (a universal 2nd language spoken by a large majority of the world's inhabitants) then yes, it is a colossal failure so far. However, It is still a vibrant and growing language. Who can say what will happen in another 125 years or so (It's still a VERY young language after all). It may reach that goal, or even just come much closer to it. (and yes, it could also die out completely in that time, nobody can say for sure ridulo.gif.

In any case though, there's another way to look at its success. If you or I created a constructed language, what do you think the odds are that it would still be vibrant, growing, and used by 2-3 million people around the world? My guess is that the likelihood of that is vanishingly small. But Zamenhof's language has endured, and prospered. There have been setbacks. In some cases the language has been actively (and passively) suppressed by various governments of the world. And yet, the idea, the ideal, and the language itself have continued to grow and prosper. That this is true almost a century after the death of its creator, is an astounding fact and a tremendous success. Is Eo a successful language? I would say so. I certainly use it, so it is very successful for me.

As to the "Esperanto Culture" well, yes and no. There's and old joke. If you get 5 esperantists in a room the only thing you'll be able get them all to agree on is that Esperanto is a good thing. And if you get 10 Esperantists into a room, probably at least one of them won't even agree to that!

Esperanto is a tool. It can be used to promote diverse thoughts and ideas. You'll find Esperantists with wildly differing core values and beliefs, different religions (Eo is even a pseudo-official language in two religions, bahai and oomoto, and the people of the oomoto religion believe that Zamenhof is a god. (And I doubt you'd find much agreement on that point by other esperantists.)
So, no, there's no monolithic, unifying Esperanto culture. And though there are cults that have adopted Esperanto, The esperanto movement itself is in no way a cult. Esperanto is a tool that can be used by anyone, for any purpose that people use languages for.

Now with that said, Esperantists are bound together by a shared language. And the people who learn it often have some traits in similar (a general interest in languages, an international outlook, etc...). And because Esperantists are so spread out over the world, there has arisen a sort of tradition around Esperanto meetings (I still wouldn't go so far as to call it a culture). For those of us who see esperanto as a good thing and want to help it grow, there are shared goals and shared traditions within the movement to make it grow so that the dream of an international language can be realized. But in my opinion, there's nothing more than that. As I said, Esperanto is just a tool, a language. It can be used to make friends, or enemies, to woo a lover, or even romance a future spouse, it can be used to express beautiful poetry, or caustic polemic, or any other thing. And all of that is proper, because in the end, that's what the dream was really about

esperanto_yeah:I have recently come across with an argument about Esperanto that it was originally planned as the ultimate international language yet it failed to become so, and today most of the Esperanto learners are very interesting people due to their unaccustomed interests of learning a language with few speakers. So supposedly all these interesting people have created an interesting alternative culture. I feel that this is somewhat true yet I have been learning E-o for a short time so my questions are:
Do you believe there is such a Esperantist culture that has specific values, that bonds people in the way any similarly as a national language would? If so what are some characteristics of Esperanto culture? I am so interested in them...
And do you believe that Esperanto has completely lost its hope to increase its speakers by large numbers but slowly becoming more and more of a secret club?

T0dd (Prikaži profil) 04. februar 2007 21:16:18

Everything Erin said!

Esperanto isn't a "secret club" by any means, and my own feeling is that the internet is raising its profile a bit. But to be candid, it does count as a somewhat eccentric interest, in the eyes of the rest of the world, I suppose--especially the anglophone world. That's mainly because most people just don't know what it's all about. They tend to believe, as I once did, that Esperanto was something that was tried, and failed, and went away.

I have no illusions that Esperanto will solve the world's problems. Speaking the same language never stopped people from wanting to kill each other, and doing so. Nevertheless, when you learn Esperanto, you do make a statement to the world. You're extending a hand in friendship. Especially as an anglophone you're showing a willingness to surrender a bit of privilege.

I teach at a university and, as you'd expect, most of my colleagues are achingly liberal about social issues. We have speakers and workshops that address things like "systemic white privilege" and the like. When I point out that the privilege of being an anglophone is at least as powerful as white privilege, or male privilege, it takes people by surprise. And yet most of my colleagues have had the experience of attending academic conferences in places like Amsterdam, or Madrid, or Rome, or Prague, and having the work language of the conference be English--without finding anything the least bit odd about that!

When you learn Esperanto you say to the world, "I'm willing to meet somewhere in the middle," and you make the pleasant discovery that there are in fact plenty of people waiting to meet you there.

Tilino (Prikaži profil) 31. marec 2007 20:05:12

T0dd:When you learn Esperanto you say to the world, "I'm willing to meet somewhere in the middle," and you make the pleasant discovery that there are in fact plenty of people waiting to meet you there.
Yes, exactly. Very well put!

mkj1887 (Prikaži profil) 16. september 2017 17:56:05

esperanto_yeah:I have recently come across with an argument about Esperanto that it was originally planned as the ultimate international language yet it failed to become so, and today most of the Esperanto learners are very interesting people due to their unaccustomed interests of learning a language with few speakers. So supposedly all these interesting people have created an interesting alternative culture. I feel that this is somewhat true yet I have been learning E-o for a short time so my questions are:
Do you believe there is such a Esperantist culture that has specific values, that bonds people in the way any similarly as a national language would? If so what are some characteristics of Esperanto culture? I am so interested in them...
And do you believe that Esperanto has completely lost its hope to increase its speakers by large numbers but slowly becoming more and more of a secret club?
Esperanto keeps outliving its obituary-writers.

mkj1887 (Prikaži profil) 16. september 2017 17:58:49

Wikipedia has an article specifically on ‘Esperanto culture’ (aside from its article on Esperanto itself).

Here is a link to the article on ‘Esperanto culture’.

Altebrilas (Prikaži profil) 19. september 2017 10:19:54

When I point out that the privilege of being an anglophone is at least as powerful as white privilege, or male privilege, it takes people by surprise.
Todd, that is the point.

Il will further schematize what occurs in the inconscious mind of public opinion, like this:

a) Anglophones have a privilege
b) A large majority of people know a few words of english, then are anglophones
hence c) a large majority favours english (to keep their privilege)

d) There is a policy of "no debate" about language problems.
e) Then one never hears arguments against syllogism (a & b => c), which is an obvious fallacy
f) Then c is true (for the public opinion).

There is certainly a simpler way to express that, but my english is not good enough fot that.

(I would click a "like" on your post if that feature existed on lernu!)

mkj1887 (Prikaži profil) 19. september 2017 13:54:39

T0dd:Everything Erin said!

Esperanto isn't a "secret club" by any means, and my own feeling is that the internet is raising its profile a bit. But to be candid, it does count as a somewhat eccentric interest, in the eyes of the rest of the world, I suppose--especially the anglophone world. That's mainly because most people just don't know what it's all about. They tend to believe, as I once did, that Esperanto was something that was tried, and failed, and went away.

I have no illusions that Esperanto will solve the world's problems. Speaking the same language never stopped people from wanting to kill each other, and doing so. Nevertheless, when you learn Esperanto, you do make a statement to the world. You're extending a hand in friendship. Especially as an anglophone you're showing a willingness to surrender a bit of privilege.

I teach at a university and, as you'd expect, most of my colleagues are achingly liberal about social issues. We have speakers and workshops that address things like "systemic white privilege" and the like. When I point out that the privilege of being an anglophone is at least as powerful as white privilege, or male privilege, it takes people by surprise. And yet most of my colleagues have had the experience of attending academic conferences in places like Amsterdam, or Madrid, or Rome, or Prague, and having the work language of the conference be English--without finding anything the least bit odd about that!

When you learn Esperanto you say to the world, "I'm willing to meet somewhere in the middle," and you make the pleasant discovery that there are in fact plenty of people waiting to meet you there.
The arch liberalism of your colleagues is no accident. It is a consequence of O’Sullivan’s First Law: Any institution that is not explicitly right wing will become left wing over time.

Here’s a read-further link.

Altebrilas (Prikaži profil) 20. september 2017 09:13:52

The Democrats are no longer what they used to be...

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