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We need a "warning: no english" tag

od ceigered, 16. júna 2009

Príspevky: 47

Jazyk: English

ceigered (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2009 12:16:40

I think we need a little tag, just a little line of code or something like that people can put at the start of their messages or in the header to indicate that the thread involves English speakers specifically but can't be in English maybe due to the speaker not possessing the necessary skills.

I say this because I see a lot of users trying to communicate with others in the English forums specifically (as its the main place that I frequent) but then having "Please translate into English or your message will be deleted". Sometimes I guess these users may not be able to go to another forum because the people they want to talk to tend to stay only in the English speakers forum, but then if they try and communicate in full EO they will get 'shut down' (e.g. messages flagged or deleted).

So, maybe we should make it standard convention that this is used in a message which is in Esperanto but written for English audiences.

1. In the Topic line, insert [Ne Angla - Not English] at the start
2. In the first line of the Message, insert [Mi ne parolas Angle - I don't speak English]
3. If the user does speak English but for some unbeknown reason feels the need to right in Esperanto, they could alternatively add [EO Usage Warning] or something like that for English speakers and moderators so they know that there is some reason for it.

I say this because, putting it politely, this IS an Esperanto forum and therefore the use of Esperanto shouldn't be discouraged just because someone can't speak English. Of course it should be used when addressing English speakers especially learners if possible, but if that is not an option for the addresser, then they should be able to fall back on the kindness of the English-speaking community to translate for them.

Anyway, these are my thoughts after my temporary exile from the magical kingdom of the internets due to lack of modem.

Miland (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2009 18:22:53

I'm not sure about freely allowing Esperanto posts in the English-speaking section, because beginners frequent that as well. But one possibility might be to allow a special section or thread on 'Posts in Esperanto for speakers of English', for the use of Esperanto speakers who wanted to get the attention of English-speakers who don't usually frequent the Esperanto-language forums.

andogigi (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2009 18:28:20

I follow what you're saying, but in the interest of fairness I'm not sure I agree with it. Would anyone have a problem with me putting an Esperanto post in the Arabic forum and starting it with 'Mi pardonpetas sed mi ne parolas Arabe'?

I honestly don't mind reading an esperanto post here, especially if the person is a better speaker than I am and it helps me build my vocabulary. (This is why I do more reading/translating in the Esperanto forums than I do posting) I can see, however, where others might mind it.

Perhaps the best thing to ask would be, 'How many of our English speakers mind having an Esperanto posting in the English forum'? I'd be interested to see the response.

russ (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2009 19:34:01

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand why someone who can't speak English would want to post in the English forum. If it's a question about Esperanto, there is the Esperanto Konsultejo forum, and there are the national language forums for the national languages they do know.

Miland (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2009 21:03:16

andogigi:Would anyone have a problem with me putting an Esperanto post in the Arabic forum and starting it with 'Mi pardonpetas sed mi ne parolas Arabe'.
Believe it or not I've had official warnings not to do that in the forums of Asian languages when I've tried to ask a question about difficulties with Esperanto. You can see what happened here and here!

orthohawk (Zobraziť profil) 16. júna 2009 22:12:05

russ:Yeah, I'm not sure I understand why someone who can't speak English would want to post in the English forum. If it's a question about Esperanto, there is the Esperanto Konsultejo forum, and there are the national language forums for the national languages they do know.
Maybe they want to ask about something particular to English or its speakers? Once, for the birthday of a Lithuanian friend of mine I wanted to say "happy birthday" in Lithuanian to him. I suppose I could have gone to one of the Esperanto forums hoping that a litvak was posting there, or else done a user search restricting results to Lithuanian........

ceigered (Zobraziť profil) 17. júna 2009 6:23:24

russ:Yeah, I'm not sure I understand why someone who can't speak English would want to post in the English forum. If it's a question about Esperanto, there is the Esperanto Konsultejo forum, and there are the national language forums for the national languages they do know.
Well if you want to ask a question about English, you generally want to ask the English speakers. And where would be better other than the English forum itself, where English speakers are bound to be found? ridulo.gif (last time I checked anyway)

And then there are things like this:
http://eo.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=4...
Where people need English speakers for some reason or another (e.g. English speaking forums elsewhere).
Basically there could be lots of random reasons, I'm not saying its something that's at crisis point or will be, but I just thought it'd be a nice step towards mutual understand and world peace and the eradication of war and dust mites.

ceigered (Zobraziť profil) 17. júna 2009 6:34:17

Miland:
andogigi:Would anyone have a problem with me putting an Esperanto post in the Arabic forum and starting it with 'Mi pardonpetas sed mi ne parolas Arabe'.
Believe it or not I've had official warnings not to do that in the forums of Asian languages when I've tried to ask a question about difficulties with Esperanto. You can see what happened here and here!
Funnily enough most of the Chinese speakers tend to use Esperanto or Chinese or both together (e.g. Nihao, kiel vi fartas? etc).

And I wonder if it might be automatic, these responses.

But I think the best thing about writing in other language forums, in their language or not, is that you learn a fair bit about their language or culture or even their version of Esperanto. Because no doubt each language causes bias in its speakers' esperanto.

richardhall (Zobraziť profil) 17. júna 2009 12:21:06

I think it makes sense for the national language areas to remain as they are. There's always the "questions about other languages" area where questions about English could be raised.

I almost suggested a seperate 'Questions about English' forum, but there's really no reason to privilege English in that way.

But we really shouldn't get worked up if someone asks a question in the wrong place or language. Life's too short.

nshepperd (Zobraziť profil) 17. júna 2009 13:33:12

I think we should be kind to those who "ne parolas angle". Probably they have a good reason to ask their question of the english speakers, and someone usually comes along anyway who is kind enough to translate a particular post into english for the rest of the english speakers.

Maybe we could just say, if one of these "neangleparolantoj" asks a question, that this thread is marked as a bilingual one, and so could everyone please post their reponses in both english and esperanto. If they only speak one of the languages they don't have to risk their post to be deleted, just that it might be ignored, at least until someone translates it for them.

Nahor