Ujumbe: 20
Lugha: English
ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 1 Julai 2009 6:06:29 asubuhi
)That's helped clear up a little confusion I've had between what's put down in paper in Esperanto and what's actually commonly spoken in Esperanto.
And I am quite flattered by the poll results, but seriously, I put the whole 'GET YOU AND YOUR DOG OFF MY LAWN' there for a reason, you don't HAVE to compliment my awesomeness (
mmm something about my humility possibly needs some review).And that was classic Miland, if I ever (although quite unlikely given where I live) come across that situation that will be my response - whilst remaining with my poop-hound on their lawn
Back on topic though, must one use 'dank' al' or can they say 'dank' por', e.g. 'thanks for your help'?
Or must it always be 'dank' al'? In which case, can 'dank' al' be used identically to 'dankon por/pro'?
And tommjames I feel I agree with you, having elision for more than just knowns is going to hurt people's heads given that Esperanto can easily switch an adjective to a noun but changing the end that would get elided.
And saying 'grandec' sounds cool but defeats the purpose of elision
.It would only make sense when the elided adjective proceeds something clearly a noun, for example "grand' hundo", because it would make no sense to say "grando hundo". The reverse would be too ambiguous in some cases and would be better off avoided (although simple sentences like "hund' estas grand'" are a dead give away).
tommjames (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 1 Julai 2009 8:54:51 asubuhi
ceigered:It would only make sense when the elided adjective proceeds something clearly a noun, for example "grand' hundo", because it would make no sense to say "grando hundo".Yea I suppose context will often make it clearer, but it seems pretty unreliable. Don't forget you can make a noun-like word out of an adjective by preceding it with la or some other difinilo. Off the top of my head I can imagine with the 2 examples:
La granda. (the one who is big)
La grando. (the size)
..the elided form of La grand'. would give no indication as to the real meaning.
That's just one example, possibly not a good one but there will surely be many others, aswell as other compelling arguments against relaxing the rules about dropping the final vowel (aesthetic implications of all the extra apostrophies, general readability, slippery slope.. if adjectives then why not adverbs and infinitives etc).
As regards your question, PMEG clarifies the dank al' expression but makes no reference to other prepositions, so my guess would be it is to be avoided. You can run the query \\bdank' \\w+\\b through at Tekstaro and you'll see al is the only prep used in the whole collection of works there.
ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 1 Julai 2009 10:16:43 asubuhi
And using 'la' to make a noun-like word out of an adjective slipped my mind, you really would need a word-type marker there otherwise you could have small technicalities.. The example that I can think of is "la ver'" - is it "the true one" or "the truth"?
All very interesting though!
Rogir (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 1 Julai 2009 11:21:55 asubuhi
jchthys (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 1 Julai 2009 4:07:55 alasiri
Polaris (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 2 Julai 2009 4:46:13 asubuhi
Miland (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 2 Julai 2009 7:55:47 asubuhi
ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 2 Julai 2009 10:17:16 asubuhi
Rogir:'Rigardu la dosiero' - What should the file watch?Ha ha... Yes... Lets just say I forgot the -n(s).. I'll go correct that now (dankon, rogir!)
@ Jchthys:
Yeah sorry about that I was thinking "how do you say 'off of' in Esperanto and went with making up a new word. But, that could work too! "GET UNDER MY LAWN YOUNGIN!"
@ Polaris:
Hey haven't seen you around in a good while (possibly because I'm a bit two-headed at Lernu and stick to the one forum)! I was thinking about 'el' but I was worried about how it would sound... But I guess 'malsur' is a little 'off' itself
@ Miland:
Yeah I saw that in the Pocket EO dict by Andrew McLinen just a moment ago, so I'll use that for 'off of' - however, the logic of using 'de sur' does do my head in a bit, as to me it's like saying 'belonging to the state of being on something', so 'irigi de sur la gazono' could be 'go to the top of my lawn' or something if you follow my confused logic. Regardless ill use de (sur) from now on.
Cheers all
Miland (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 2 Julai 2009 1:51:58 alasiri
ceigered:..the logic of using 'de sur' does do my head in a bit..It's a matter of interpreting de, which has a wide range of meanings. Here de sur la gazono would mean 'from on top of the lawn.' There's a helpful discussion of the various uses of de, and alternatives, on pp 176-177 of Teach Yourself Esperanto, if you ever get hold of it.
ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 2 Julai 2009 3:50:47 alasiri
I have been considering that book for a while, I think i'll actually try and get it within the year or so because that'd be a good reference - and would save you having to answer all 100000 of my questions