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Esperanto version of Facebook

Donniedillon,2009年7月12日の

メッセージ: 11

言語: English

Donniedillon (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月12日 1:33:33

I was really excited to see that Esperanto is now one of the languages you can get Facebook in. It is still in beta but I switched over. Has anyone else done this? As a komencanto I am not a great judge of grammar. Anyone with a bit more experience have anything to say about it?

Momomomomo (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月13日 20:22:59

OMG!!!
I didn't know that, I'm so changing over now thank you so much for sharing this news. He he, it's right under pirate talk.

Momomomomo (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月13日 20:57:31

Aww, well it isn't perfect, I just spotted "XXX ankaŭ komentis pri la stato de XXX" when the ankaŭ should come first.

jchthys (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月13日 22:29:42

Can’t you edit the translation yourself?

ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月13日 23:55:59

Momomomomo:Aww, well it isn't perfect, I just spotted "XXX ankaŭ komentis pri la stato de XXX" when the ankaŭ should come first.
Why must ankaux come first?
There isn't a word order rule for that is there? demando.gif

And there's been an Esperanto translation for AGES !!!!! It's only that they've started advertising the translation app on the home page, nothing new at all rideto.gif

mnlg (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月14日 7:17:13

ceigered:Why must ankaux come first?
ankaŭ mi komentis la artikolon
I am one of those who commented the article

mi ankaŭ komentis la artikolon
Commenting the article is one of the things I have done

mi komentis ankaŭ la artikolon
The article is one of the items I left a comment for

ceigered (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月14日 10:10:04

Ok I can understand the ankaux being moved before the object in the last example, but I don't understand how the middle sense is possible. But thanks mnlg for explaining, I must admit I have never come across ankaux being used in different places for different meanings before....

mnlg (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月14日 10:16:14

"X ankaŭ komentis pri la stato de Y" means that X did a few things, among which commenting on Y's status.

However, the way I see it, what Facebook wants to say is that there are a few people who commented on Y's status, among which X. That's why "ankaŭ" should be moved before the subject, as mo*5 has said.

This is actually quite beautifully mirrored in Italian. I can see that the difference is less easy to convey in English.

tommjames (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月14日 10:55:26

I think it may be worth noting the comments about the positioning of ankaŭ in PMEG, which indicate the quite logical system outlined by mnlg is in fact not compulsory and there are many deviations from it in practice.

PMEG:Tre ofte oni aŭdas, ke ankaŭ troviĝu ĝuste antaŭ tio, al kio ĝi rilatas. Tio estas tre bona ĝenerala konsilo por klara stilo, sed ĝi tute ne estas deviga regulo, kiel oni ofte ŝajnigas. En la Fundamento, ĉe Zamenhof, kaj ankoraŭ hodiaŭ ĉe plej multaj Esperantistoj, ankaŭ povas stari post tio, kion ĝi emfazas. Zamenhof ofte tiel uzis ankaŭ, kiam ĝi rilatis al persona pronomo, sed ankaŭ aliokaze.
Very often you hear that "ankaŭ" should go just before what it relates to. That is good advice for clear style, but it is in no way a compulsory rule, as people often claim. In the Fundamento, with Zamenhof, and still today with many esperantists, "ankaŭ" can come after what it emphasises. Zamenhof often used "ankaŭ" that way when it related to a personal pronoun, but also in other cases.

Presumably this stems from ankaŭ being an adverb and not a preposition, even though it can be used prepositionally and does indeed aid clarity when used that way. In general I've found the meaning of ankaŭ to be just as potentially ambiguous in Esperanto as it can be in English. I guess the main difference is in Esperanto you're more free to put ankaŭ before the word and thereby clarifying the meaning, whereas if you did the same in English you'd likely make the sentence sound a bit strange.

mnlg (プロフィールを表示) 2009年7月14日 11:26:43

There are characteristics of Zamenhof's style which we would consider quirky now. I am all for erring on the conservative side, and of course I would never suggest to introduce rules or mandatory styles, but I would personally leave "free" uses of ankaŭ to poetry or to clear enough contexts.

This Facebook line is not a big issue, anyway; I would not consider it erroneous, but it is surely less precise, which sometimes can be the intended effect, and other times it is something I would suggest addressing.

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