Fastest Way to Achieve Fluency in Esperanto?
de jsewell94, 21 de juliol de 2009
Missatges: 54
Llengua: English
69UM24OSU12 (Mostra el perfil) 22 de juliol de 2009 3.35.01
jsewell94:Remember, the accusative is used for direct objects and not used following prepositions. The above should read:
Mi ankaŭ manĝis matenmanĝo, lunĉo, kaj tagmanĝo. Miaj gefratoj kaj mi parolis pri interesajn aĵojn.
T
Mi ankaŭ manĝis matenmanĝon
, lunĉon
, kaj tagmanĝon
. Miaj gefratoj kaj mi parolis pri interesaj
aĵoj
.
For an English speaker, when to use the accusative (and when not to use it)is one of the biggest early hurdles. For me, the second was (still is) the use of the -ig and -iĝ suffixes. On the lernu site, remember to use the sx/s button to convert the x-form into supersignoj.
You're off to a very good start. I love the language and I hope that you will come to love it too. I wish the internet had existed when I was your age. I might have come to love it a lot earlier. Good luck to you!
andogigi (Mostra el perfil) 22 de juliol de 2009 5.26.47
jchthys:By the way, what’s everyone’s definition of “fluent”? To me the word means “able to communicate one’s own ideas with little hesitation”, not “able to speak like a native” or “able to speak quickly without grammatical error”."Fluent" is a word I don't like because it is relative. It means something different to different people. With languages I've previously learned, I prefer to think of my achievements in terms of "milestones". The first time I had a conversation with someone and understood it... The first time I told a joke... The first time I used the language over the telephone... Etc. I have certain milestones that have special meaning only to me and help me mark my progress.
In fact, I never answer the question "Can you speak language X fluently?" The truth is, depending on your definition, I might not speak English fluently.
jsewell94 (Mostra el perfil) 22 de juliol de 2009 5.53.35
Like, if someone asked me to use one word in english to describe myself..I wouldn't know what to choose. Funny? Tall? But in esperanto..it isn't a problem. I just use 'Felicxamalturpegaltamuzablankamagraviro' to describe me lol.
Blah..the accusative N is annoying sometimes. Only because I usually put it on the wrong words. I know what direct objects are, but I don't know when the N is need sometimes.
ceigered (Mostra el perfil) 22 de juliol de 2009 7.38.28
jsewell94:Blah..the accusative N is annoying sometimes. Only because I usually put it on the wrong words. I know what direct objects are, but I don't know when the N is need sometimes.I would recommend just with direct objects, and with adverbs implying motion towards something (e.g. hejmen- to home).
Direct objects also includes the adjectives that describe them (e.g. belan, tiun), tio (which acts as a noun), and some conjunctions when they become direct objects.. like 'kiu' (mi scias la libron kiun vi ne havas VS mi scias la libron kiu estas legxita per vi) and 'kio' (mi scias kio mangxas vin VS mi scias kion mangxas vi)
(p.s. anyone more experienced than me, I think I stuffed up the second to last example sentence - does kio take the accusative there?)
tommjames (Mostra el perfil) 22 de juliol de 2009 9.16.26
ceigered:(mi scias kio mangxas vin VS mi scias kion mangxas vi)You didn't stuff it up it's ok, although I would use a comma:
(p.s. anyone more experienced than me, I think I stuffed up the second to last example sentence - does kio take the accusative there?)
Mi scias, kio manĝas vin.
I know what eats you.
The reason kio dosn't take the accusative is you're showing that you know a fact, rather than a definite object. In the above sentence the direct object is more or less the entire clause [kio manĝas vin] so it would be meaningless to put the accusative on any specific word within it.
ceigered (Mostra el perfil) 23 de juliol de 2009 7.28.18
tommjames:Cheers tommjames that's what I was thinking, but I have a habit of double-guessing myselfceigered:(mi scias kio mangxas vin VS mi scias kion mangxas vi)You didn't stuff it up it's ok, although I would use a comma:
(p.s. anyone more experienced than me, I think I stuffed up the second to last example sentence - does kio take the accusative there?)
Mi scias, kio manĝas vin.
I know what eats you.
The reason kio dosn't take the accusative is you're showing that you know a fact, rather than a definite object. In the above sentence the direct object is more or less the entire clause [kio manĝas vin] so it would be meanginless to put the accusative on any specific word within it.
jchthys (Mostra el perfil) 23 de juliol de 2009 13.36.50
jsewell94 (Mostra el perfil) 23 de juliol de 2009 21.07.58
tommjames (Mostra el perfil) 23 de juliol de 2009 21.54.25
jchthys:In fact, a longer form of saying the same thing would be Mi scias tion, kio manĝas vin.Actually that means something slightly different, as you're showing that you know the actual thing that eats him, rather than the fact that that thing eats him.
The difference can be shown with this example. Suppose Bill knows a lot about quantum mechanics. Ben comes along and says:
Mi scias, kion vi scias.
I know what you know.
Here we can see that Ben knows that Bill knows quantum mechanics. It does NOT show that Ben knows quantum mechanics though. However if he had said:
Mi scias tion, kion vi scias.
I know that which you know
..it would mean that Ben knows quantum mechanics aswel as Bill.
jchthys (Mostra el perfil) 24 de juliol de 2009 1.12.30
tommjames:Mi scias tion, kion vi scias.Mm, wouldn’t that be Mi scias ĉion, kion vi scias?
I know that which you know
..it would mean that Ben knows quantum mechanics aswel as Bill.