Meddelanden: 63
Språk: English
ailebol (Visa profilen) 22 juli 2009 18:23:25
tommjames (Visa profilen) 22 juli 2009 18:43:57
ailebol:my son says the word completely is an adjective because it modifies the noun clean. How is that possible since the word ends in "ly"?The noun clean?
In your sentence, the esperanto translation of completely is indeed an adverb just as it is in English (which modifies the -adjective- "clean"). I would translate completely clean as tute pura.
languagegeek (Visa profilen) 22 juli 2009 18:45:30
Ironchef (Visa profilen) 22 juli 2009 18:55:31
ailebol:I'm always getting into trouble concerning what is an adjective and what is an adverb. In the sentence "This soap gets the clothes completely clean", my son says the word completely is an adjective because it modifies the noun clean. How is that possible since the word ends in "ly"?In its simplest form, an adjective describes a noun and an adverb describes an action, and *how* the action is done.
He ran quickly to the red car: quickly is the adverb and red is the adjective.
In your example, as already mentioned, "clean" describes the clothes therefore it's your adjective, and "completely" describes how those clothes get clean, therefore it's your adverb.
RiotNrrd (Visa profilen) 22 juli 2009 20:06:37
ailebol:How is that possible since the word ends in "ly"?Do NOT rely on the "rule" that words that end in "-ly" are adverbs. This is the rule they taught me when I was in school, and it is one of the worst types of rules: a rule that is OFTEN (but not always) correct.
Many words that end in "-ly" are NOT adverbs. Some words that do not end in "-ly" ARE adverbs.
This is a terrible rule. Remove it from your mind completely. It will lead you astray in a lot of cases.
If you want to know whether or not a word is an adverb, you HAVE to look at its function within its sentence. There is no easy rule (for the English language) based on the form of the words that will always tell you what's an adverb and what isn't.
darkweasel (Visa profilen) 22 juli 2009 20:10:36
(In case you don't know: In German "the car moves quickly" is "das Auto bewegt sich schnell", but "the car is quick" is also "das Auto ist schnell" - and now imagine what kinds of problems I had with using English -ly!)
I recommend reading When should I use -a (adjective form) or -e (adverb form)?.
Basically an adjective describes a noun or pronoun, an adverb describes everything else. Between English and Esperanto there are, however, still a few differences regarding this.
English infinitives/gerunds use the adjective: "dancing is easy" (not easily), but Esperanto uses adverbs with all verbs, including infinitives: "danci estas facile" (not facila). Since Esperanto weather phrases have no nouns, they also use adverbs: "it's warm" becomes "estas varme" (or simply "varmas"). Actually, if I'm unsure about using -a and -e in Esperanto, I just make a verb out of the adjective, for example instead of "tio estas malbona" ("that's bad") you can say "tio malbonas".
mnlg (Visa profilen) 23 juli 2009 07:25:35
Adverbs describe adjectives and verbs.
In Esperanto, just like in English, there are two kinds of adverbs: compound adverbs (specified by the ending -e) and simple adverbs, as for instance "tre", "jes", "pli", "kiam", etc.
In English, compound averbs are created by appending -ly, -ways, -wise, or prepending a- (afloat, awall, ahead). Simple adverbs (yes, why, very, rather, etc) are to be learned individually. However English is (unsurprisingly) a tad less regular; for example, sometimes the adjective and the adverb coincide ('fast', 'round').
Esperanto tends to be more regular, as other members have specified. With an adjective you may only describe a noun. Compare the difference:
"Mi vidas lin bone"
I see him well; my eyesight has no deficiency.
"mi vidas lin bona"
I see him [seems to be] well; he looks great.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 23 juli 2009 07:26:01
darkweasel:Wow, English speakers also have problems with that? I always thought this was restricted to German speakers like me.It's funny, darkweasel, because for me that's one of my favourite things about German - easy to make adverbs and you don't have to learn to recognise a new way to make adverbs
(In case you don't know: In German "the car moves quickly" is "das Auto bewegt sich schnell", but "the car is quick" is also "das Auto ist schnell" - and now imagine what kinds of problems I had with using English -ly!)
darkweasel (Visa profilen) 23 juli 2009 09:18:14
ceigered (Visa profilen) 23 juli 2009 13:01:52
mnlg:prepending a- (afloat, awall, ahead).I would be cautious to use a- words as an example, though, because while the wiktionary calls them adverbs they do function a lot like adjectives, or like a participle of some description. For example, "I am afloat" is like saying "I am floated" ('a-' comes from western germanic 'ga-' now 'ge-' in German and Dutch and 'a-' in English where it still survives). You can be 'away' or you can go 'away', here 'away's nature almost changes from adverb to adjective.
I am aware = adjective, shows the state of the pronoun
He sat aware = adverb, shows the state during the action
etc.
So I'd be cautious approaching the 'a-' perspective because it's a bit of a minefield given the degeneration in meaning from the past participle marker to the current intensifier prefix.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ge-#Old_English
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/y-#Middle_English