Kwa maudhui

object? adverbial?

ya robinast, 26 Julai 2009

Ujumbe: 5

Lugha: English

robinast (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 26 Julai 2009 9:29:26 asubuhi

Is the following sentence correct?

Mia simpla kamparana racio malpermesas mian malscion nomi Dion.
My simple rustic mind does not allow to call my ignorance God (hmm, I'm not sure I got it right even in English - but posting here the original phrase in Estonian wouldn't help anyway).

"mia malscio" is an object, so it has to be in accusative. But what about "Dio"? "nomi" is a transitive verb - but "Dio" does not seem to be an object... Am I right? Is it an adverbial and if so, does not take the -n ending??

Harri.

darkweasel (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 26 Julai 2009 10:31:27 asubuhi

"malpermesas nomi mian malscion Dio"

robinast (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 26 Julai 2009 11:16:45 asubuhi

darkweasel:"malpermesas nomi mian malscion Dio"
Thanks!!
Amike,
Harri.

tommjames (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 26 Julai 2009 11:17:25 asubuhi

robinast:"mia malscio" is an object, so it has to be in accusative. But what about "Dio"? "nomi" is a transitive verb - but "Dio" does not seem to be an object... Am I right? Is it an adverbial and if so, does not take the -n ending??
You are right that Dio is not the object, and thus, as darkweasel has shown, does not take the accusative.

Dio in this case is not adverbial, but rather a predicate noun in the nominative. That is, it is a descriptor -of- the object, but not the object itself.

The following from the Detala Gramatiko explains it:

Detala Gramatiko:10.1.4 Predikativo

Predikativo estas frazparto, kiu priskribas la subjekton aŭ la objekton pere de la predikato. Predikativo normale estas nominativa.
Ŝi estis terure malbela. Terure malbela estas priskribo de ŝi. La priskribo estas perata de la verbo estis.
La juna vidvino fariĝis denove fianĉino.
La ĝojo kaj surprizo faris lin muta!
Ĉemizojn, kolumojn, manumojn kaj ceterajn similajn objektojn ni nomas tolaĵo.
Detala Gramatiko:A predicate noun/adjective is a part of a sentence which describes the subject or the object by way of the predicate. Predicate nouns/adjectives are normally in the nominative.
Shirts, collars, cuffs and other similar objects we call linen.
The last example there which is translated into English is the one most similar to your sentence.

robinast (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 26 Julai 2009 11:54:55 asubuhi

Thank you, Tommjames! You made things much clearer for me.

In Estonian, we use an accusative case for the "mia scio" in this sentence and and a translative case for the "Dio". Saying the same thing in English or Esperanto and using a nominative for Dio makes me to feel that something important is missing... Using cases (in Estonian, we have 14 of them) seems so natural and logical for me that when I lack the possibility to use them, I feel like picking daisies with toes, not fingers... lango.gif

Amike,
Harri.

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