Sisu juurde

Derivation from pronouns

kelle poolt Oŝo-Jabe, 27. juuli 2009

Postitused: 25

Keel: English

ceigered (Näita profiili) 29. juuli 2009 5:04.43

Oŝo-Jabe:I've done a little digging and have found an instance where the -o ending is added to a pronoun, and even takes suffixes. Apparently, the words id, ego, and superego can be rendered in Esperanto as mio, miego, kaj ĝio.
How I hate it when they do literal translations for Latin words which are being used poorly anyway ridulo.gif
I mean, Freud wouldn't of done "es, ich, und überich", but no, just had to slaughter latin lango.gif

Oŝo-Jabe (Näita profiili) 29. juuli 2009 5:53.55

ceigered:Pronouns might not take -o in order to prevent misunderstandings in the accusative. Mion' could be taken to be 'a fraction of me'. Could be a poetic possibility, who knows.
I don't think mion' would often get confused with mion. The accent still falls the same in the poetic forms (mión' vs míon.)

ceigered:
Oŝo-Jabe:Apparently, the words id, ego, and superego can be rendered in Esperanto as mio, miego, kaj ĝio.
How I hate it when they do literal translations for Latin words which are being used poorly anyway ridulo.gif
I mean, Freud wouldn't of done "es, ich, und überich", but no, just had to slaughter latin lango.gif
Actually, I think Freud worked his theories in German. Both the English and Esperanto Wikipedia's claim that the original terminology is "das Es," "das Ich," and "das Über-Ich". rideto.gif

The other words I think I've seen used are "egoo", "superegoo", and "iduso." Straight imports from the Latin. I personally like the substantive pronouns because it gives us a template for forming more substantive pronouns.

Edit: I found a use of "vie" at Tekstaro, by Zamenhof himself in a translation from Hans Christian Anderson.

El fenestro en Vartou:Vi promenas sur la remparo en la unuaj tagoj de la printempo, kiam ĉiuj sonoriloj de preĝejoj proklamas la grandan pentotagon. Oni ne povas ankoraŭ trovi violojn, sed ekstere antaŭ Rosenborg staras arbo kun la unuaj verdaj burĝonoj; tie vie haltas. Ĉiujare la arbo elkreskigas verdajn branĉojn, tion faras nenia koro en homa brusto, ĝin traglitas pli da mallumaj nuboj, ol kiom la nordo scias.
In an English version (itself a translation of the Danish "Fra et Vindue i Vartou") of the text it says:

A View from Vartou's Window:You walk together on the rampart in the early spring, when all the church bells toll out on the solemn prayer day. No violets are yet in blossom, but just outside Rosenborg Castle you pause beside a tree decked with the first green buds of spring. There you both pause. Each year that tree puts forth fresh green shoots; but the human heart does not, and the clouds that pass over the mind of man are heavier and darker than ever the northern skies have known.

ceigered (Näita profiili) 29. juuli 2009 8:16.50

I think the rational behind 'vie' there is that Zamenhoff was referring to "that of relation to you", of course it's hard to give it a standard English definition without improvising with 'youally' which makes little sense lango.gif

Did Zamenhoff use the original Danish translation? I've never read it but I wonder if it uses 'both' in danish (begge or både, not sure what the right word is).

jchthys (Näita profiili) 29. juuli 2009 15:17.27

Oŝo-Jabe:The other words I think I've seen used are "egoo", "superegoo", and "iduso." Straight imports from the Latin. I personally like the substantive pronouns because it gives us a template for forming more substantive pronouns.
I just saw this, looking at the end of Ayn Rand’s Anthem in Esperanto («Himno»). I think mio might have been better than egoo, but I’m not positive.

Miland (Näita profiili) 29. juuli 2009 17:55.06

Oŝo-Jabe:.. tie vie haltas.
I suapect that vie is a typo. Vi (meaning vi ambaŭ) would work fine in the context, if the English is an accurate translation.

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