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The various forms of "for"

Pharoah, 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d.

Žinutės: 29

Kalba: English

Pharoah (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d. 17:51:16

I'm having trouble with the various ways to say "for" in Esperanto, which is no surprise since I've had the same trouble in Spanish as well. The vortaro gives me no fewer than four words:

Por
Pro
Ĉar
Dum

"By" is an even worse situation, with 7 results. Is there any page that has a good explanation of how and when to use these various forms? I'm sure I am not the only one who has looked for one.

Rogir (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d. 18:02:45

I'd say the gramitikaj pages of Lernu are a good start, and the PIV is an option too. There's this one grammar manual that's always referred to, what's it called?
Anyway, learn the meaning in Esperanto and try not to translate prepositions directly.

Pharoah (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d. 18:03:34

I'd like to, but if I still need a point of reference.

While we're at it, what's the difference between "de" and "da"?

jchthys (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d. 19:26:51

Rogir:I'd say the gramitikaj pages of Lernu are a good start, and the PIV is an option too. There's this one grammar manual that's always referred to, what's it called?
Pomego rido.gif

Rogir:Anyway, learn the meaning in Esperanto and try not to translate prepositions directly.
Exactly

jchthys (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d. 19:28:20

Pharoah:While we're at it, what's the difference between "de" and "da"?
Da is for quantity (thousands of apples, lots of laughter). De covers everything else, such as the owner of an object and the doer of an action.

Oŝo-Jabe (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d. 22:07:55

Pharoah:I'm having trouble with the various ways to say "for" in Esperanto, which is no surprise since I've had the same trouble in Spanish as well. The vortaro gives me no fewer than four words:

Por
Pro
Ĉar
Dum

"By" is an even worse situation, with 7 results. Is there any page that has a good explanation of how and when to use these various forms? I'm sure I am not the only one who has looked for one.
'Por' is for a goal.
So: "This gift is for him." = "Tiu ĉi donaco estas por li."

'Pro' and 'ĉar' give a reasons.
So: "For the want of a nail a shoe was lost." = "Pro manko de najlo ŝuo perdiĝis."
"I love you for you are wise" = "Mi amas vin ĉar vi saĝas."

'Dum' is for a length of time.
So: "I lived in France for 3 years" = "Mi loĝis en Francujo dum 3 jaroj."

Pharoah (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 6 d. 22:13:49

Thanks so much Oŝo-Jabe, I've just been using por for everything till now lango.gif.

Francisko1 (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 16 d. 18:56:11

POR = IN ORDER TO
PRO = BECAUSE OF
CXAR = BECAUSE
DUM = DURING (ADJECTIVE) (ADVERB = DUME)

Pharoah:I'm having trouble with the various ways to say "for" in Esperanto, which is no surprise since I've had the same trouble in Spanish as well. The vortaro gives me no fewer than four words:

Por
Pro
Ĉar
Dum

"By" is an even worse situation, with 7 results. Is there any page that has a good explanation of how and when to use these various forms? I'm sure I am not the only one who has looked for one.

Oŝo-Jabe (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 16 d. 20:29:34

You also expressed some confusion on translations of by?

"Apud" is for proximity:
I was by the cupboard. - Mi estis apud la ŝranko.

"Po" is used for rates:
Cheaper by the dozen. - Malpli multekosta po la dekduo.

"Laŭ" is used when something conforms to soomething else.
That's fine by me. Tio bonas laŭ mi.

"De" is used with participles to indicate who did the action.
The mouse was eaten by the cat. - La muso estis manĝita de la kato.

"Per" is used for a means, method, or a way of accomplishing something.
I came by plane. - Mi venis per aviadilo.

"Preter" means beyond.
He passed by me in the square. - Li pasis preter mi en la placo.

darkweasel (Rodyti profilį) 2009 m. rugpjūtis 17 d. 18:38:59

Not to mention the diverse uses of "je".

Indeed, prepositions are one of the most difficult things in all languages! Try to explain the point of "I believe in God". Try to explain Esperanto "baziĝi sur" (actually the same illogicality is present in English and German, with "to be based on"/"auf etwas basieren"). My father sometimes says that in English, prepositions are the most difficult thing - although I still believe that the inconsistent spelling related to pronunciation is worse. Much worse.

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