Pharoah:If it looked like a good solution, I'd probably just dismiss it like I have all the other new wave internet auxlangs like Aiola/Ayola etc... I have even run across ones that are little more than a single PDF in English

Please define "new wave languages" and what's so bad about them

Personally I'm looking out for something resembling Japanese or Chinese more in phonetics and ease (with a writing system like the Latin alphabet or hangul). (actually I'm making a conlang like that at the moment coz I'm too impatient)

Nonetheless I just read about ayola then, and while it's nothing really new or interesting or massive to me (e.g. like a Lojban than was taught in Layman's jargon and sounded less artificial rather than using every language on the planet for its dictionary), it doesn't look that bad, in fact the Fasile site makes it look beautiful

(Note: website bug: on the ayola site you can click anywhere on the homepage and start writing, or so I found. Pity it doesn't save when you refresh. Then again if it did their site would have many silly words typed on it by me)

Pharoah:Unfortunately, it seems that its creator also can pay for a lot of ad revenue, because I keep hearing about it.

Oh what I missed that - damn I need to start speaking nicely about it to create interest in the language in case I get their ads on my blog (= profit) LOL

But I take it the situation isn't as bad as Evony advertisements

Well, I think that Esperanto is nonpareil for what it does—it’s meant to be balanced between simplicity (ease of learning) and flexibility (richness of expression). To create a rival language, one must use a different set of guiding principles.

I don’t deny that a language based on Japanese phonetics and Chinese syntax (more tokaponiish) would be useful, fun or interesting, but of course it would be filling a void Esperanto leaves rather than be a replacement for it.

As to Fasile, I find its comparison contradictory (in some ways like the Ranto by J. B. Rye)—it’s an “advantage” for Fasile that it distinguishes between animate and inanimate nouns, for example, but also an “advantage” that it doesn’t have a necessary accusative.

There used to be a pretty good-sized thread on the Ĝangalo's bulletin board about Fasile (back when there WAS a Ĝangalo site, of course) that I saved to the hard drive. But color me skeptical for the long-term viability. "Our goal is to make the project available to more than half of the planet's population until the end of 2009. We believe that the basic version of the project will be assented upon and ready in two years and then we shall start public distribution." If you go back to the earliest archived version of the Fasile FAQ, that goal year used to be 2002.

Also, after reading the Akira Okrent's book, one single phrase I read on the site a few years ago stands out as the reddest of all red flags: "Referring to copyright, we will keep them due to control needs."

Man,

I just read that Fasile website you're all talking about. That's ten minutes of my life wasted. Were they drinking when they wrote it?

Besides, if any of them really believed in international communication, then why try and split the team up? Why not just support the only Aux lang that has any chance at all?

I don't trust 'em one bit!!

Sheesh.

pauswa:If someone is going to write a website in the English language, it should be written by someone whose expertise is English. I see virtually no English errors on Lernu. Therefore, Lernu's website appears professionally made.

This is a bit of a non sequitur in this particular forum, but when you see things that are grammatically wrong, or just sound strange (poorly worded) on lernu's English website (or the lernu site in any other languge), PLEASE let us know. There is a comment link on the bottom of every page. The site is always translated from the original Esperanto. Most of our translators are native speakers of their languages, but sometimes the translators are overzealous in trying to match the Esperanto text, and things come out weird. I did probably 90% of the English translation of this site, and I'm as guilty as anyone of this sort of error. So bottom line - if you see weird stuff, let us know so we can fix it.

Please define "new wave languages" and what's so bad about them ::demamdo::

I haven't had so much time for Lernu this week, so I'm dropping in late to defend myself. What I mean is that, now that most people seem to have access to the internet, more people are creating their own languages and posting them online. Hell, I even have one, although it's not publicly posted.

I don't believe I said that I found these new languages bad in general, it's just that nothing about any of them that has really impressed me upon taking a closer look. I learned a about 3/4 of Toki Pona, but I found that it was irritating to have to express myself in such a way. The urge to simplify everything into the simplest possible set of root ideas is understandable, but at some point you find it's inelegant, and I don't believe people would learn a language, however easy, for the sole purpose of being able to greet each other and ask for food.

The nice thing about Esperanto is that there's actually potential to read something truly interesting written in it. Languages that are more minimalist than EO usually either aren't fully developed or are fundamentally limited. If they're not more minimalist than EO, I don't really see much of an advantage. Limiting the set of phonemes is a nice idea, but then people seem to find the need to do other awful things like reform all the correlatives and pick more words from romance langauges (yes, this is an anti-Ido tangent).

Hope I've said something interesting.

PS: Re ayola bug, the page is constructed very strangely. It uses a frameset (think 1999). I was only able to get the thing to work on the science news page, but it appears that the content editable attribute is set to true. Maybe the webmaster thought this would make the page editable by the public, but, as we see, the changes don't save .

Pharoah:

Please define "new wave languages" and what's so bad about them ::demamdo::

I haven't had so much time for Lernu this week, so I'm dropping in late to defend myself. What I mean is that, now that most people seem to have access to the internet, more people are creating their own languages and posting them online. Hell, I even have one, although it's not publicly posted.

Lol no problem, although I wouldn't say theres a need to defend yourself, I just thought I was missing out on something I should know about.

I don't believe I said that I found these new languages bad in general, it's just that nothing about any of them that has really impressed me upon taking a closer look. I learned a about 3/4 of Toki Pona, but I found that it was irritating to have to express myself in such a way. The urge to simplify everything into the simplest possible set of root ideas is understandable, but at some point you find it's inelegant, and I don't believe people would learn a language, however easy, for the sole purpose of being able to greet each other and ask for food.

I agree - although i was given the impression that these new wave languages you were referring to may have had negative connotations, but now I get what you mean.

The nice thing about Esperanto is that there's actually potential to read something truly interesting written in it. Languages that are more minimalist than EO usually either aren't fully developed or are fundamentally limited. If they're not more minimalist than EO, I don't really see much of an advantage. Limiting the set of phonemes is a nice idea, but then people seem to find the need to do other awful things like reform all the correlatives and pick more words from romance langauges (yes, this is an anti-Ido tangent).

Mmm I'd agree and disagree but more on personal opinion. A language simpler than EO can have the same amount of interesting stuff written in it - heck I think Chinese grammar is probably simpler than EO it's just that has other things that make it a bit formidable to learn, and Chinese has lots of interesting stuff written in it. Lingua Franca Nova is more minimalist than EO too but I don't know if that has much literature yet, might be a good chance to learn and translate for it. Toki Pona IS fundamentally limited though, no doubt about it. But nonetheless you're right, EO has this thing about it which makes it good for literature etc where as there are many conlangs that fail that, with the select range that don't fail that not having enough works yet anyway.

Hope I've said something interesting.

Well I thought it was, then again the only thing I've had today is one coffee and therefore my judgement could be wrong

Hello everybody. I’ve just signed up “lernu” because I found this discussion very interesting. Some years ago 2003-2005 I studied Esperanto and I used to visit Gangalo very often. I thought the idea of an auxiliary language as EO simply wonderful. It was the first time I had heard about these ideas. But then I met others conlangs and they made me see many flaws in EO. So I abandoned them all. In 2008 I met Fasile and I came to study it for a while. Then it was removed from the internet. Maybe it has been the main reason why I gave it up too. But another important reason surely was the advancement of my general knowledge about languages. I share many of the opinions I have read here about Fasile. But when I look at the national languages difficulties I wish something more logical and simpler to express my ideas. I see both positive and negative aspects in Fasile. If anybody get interested we can detail it a bit further.

There's even a page in Esperanto: http://www.fasile.info/esperanto/Komparo.htm

Major points off for introducing a yes or no question without ĉu in the Esperanto phrase "Ni Lernu Fasilen?" It should be "Ĉu ni lernu fasilen?"