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Esper' - little experiment

dari ceigered, 11 September 2009

Pesan: 21

Bahasa: English

ceigered (Tunjukkan profil) 11 September 2009 05.38.28

Hey all,
I was experimenting in a Esperant' fashion, however I took it one step further and rather than just omitting all the o's from nouns, I omitted all case endings, adjective endings, verb endings (is, us, os and u could still be included or used as adverbial prepositions) and correlative endings (and modified some 'bl' words so they could be pronounceable). And the funny thing is that this weird version of EO is still somewhat understandable:

Hodiaŭ mi hav mult hom en mi dom, kaj ti est problem. Mi ne hav la temp por gastig ĉi ti hom* (see bottom) en mi hejm. Mi dev ir al intervju por ebel (ebl-) labor. Sed, ebel est pli bon por hav mult amik en mi hejm, eĉ se mi ne hav labor aŭ mon, est pli bon ol se mi viv sol.

Now, maybe it's because I come from an English background and speak a little Chinese, but that seems understandable to me

(Translations: Today I have many people in my house, and that is a problem. I don't have the time to entertain everybody in my home. I must go to a interview for a possible job (eble -> ebel otherwise it's hard to pronounce). But, maybe it is better to have many friends in my home, even if I don't have a job or money, it is better than living alone.)

So there you go. If you ever need an equivalent to a pidgin language when writing in EO, you can pretty much just take off all the endings. If you think people won't understand if you get the endings wrong on the odd occasion, don't worry about it because the language is just about understandable without even having word endings.

The big problem with such a thing though is that it heavily constricts Esperanto in technical writing and translating etc, which isn't a language that has grown or been designed to act in such away. It also makes the language more dependent on prepositions for making adverbs rather than just changing the 'a' or 'o' to an 'e'/'en'. It also prevents a free word order (here, the adjective = first, noun = second, SVO order). So I advise against anyone proposing a reform to the language to make things more pidgin-like because it won't really work. It is an interesting thing though, understanding an EO text even when there are no longer word endings.

But anyway thought it was pretty cool and that people who haven't thought of it before might find it fun or interesting.

*(BTW how do you say 'all of these people' - ĉiuj tiuj ĉi homoj?)

mnlg (Tunjukkan profil) 11 September 2009 07.29.02

ceigered:*(BTW how do you say 'all of these people' - ĉiuj tiuj ĉi homoj?)
Yes.

Rohan (Tunjukkan profil) 11 September 2009 07.51.53

ceigered:*(BTW how do you say 'all of these people' - ĉiuj tiuj ĉi homoj?)
I think 'ĉiuj ĉi homoj' would also do.

Rogir (Tunjukkan profil) 13 September 2009 21.37.18

Actually, I consider ĉiuj tiuj ĉi wrong or at least a too literal translation.

tommjames (Tunjukkan profil) 13 September 2009 21.42.40

Rogir:Actually, I consider ĉiuj tiuj ĉi wrong or at least a too literal translation.
Why?

Rogir (Tunjukkan profil) 14 September 2009 00.46.46

Because you are using two correlatives that contradict each other. The 'this' in 'all this' is already covered by ĉi.

Spanglanese (Tunjukkan profil) 14 September 2009 01.03.05

I also feel that it proves an important fact about the language: it is simple enough to learn quickly while so detailed that it's meaning is buttressed by each word.

mnlg (Tunjukkan profil) 14 September 2009 07.32.03

Rogir:Because you are using two correlatives that contradict each other. The 'this' in 'all this' is already covered by ĉi.
They do not exactly contradict. One of them states that you want all of the individuals; the other states that you want the individuals you are pointing to.

Think of it as "ĉiuj el ĉi tiuj", if you will.

patrik (Tunjukkan profil) 14 September 2009 08.03.22

Rohan:
ceigered:*(BTW how do you say 'all of these people' - ĉiuj tiuj ĉi homoj?)
I think 'ĉiuj ĉi homoj' would also do.
The "Lingvaj Respondoj" accord with this usage. rideto.gif

Zamenhof:PRI LA FORMO “ĈIO ĈI”
Anstataŭ “ĉio tio ĉi” vi povas tre bone diri “ĉio ĉi”, ĉar la vorto “ĉi” jam per si mem signifas proksiman montron.

La Esperantisto, 1889, p. 15

tommjames (Tunjukkan profil) 14 September 2009 11.28.31

Rogir:Because you are using two correlatives that contradict each other. The 'this' in 'all this' is already covered by ĉi.
I don't personally see a contradiction, for the reason mnlg has already expounded upon.

In any case it's worth noting this is standard usage.. run \\bĉiuj ((ĉi tiuj)|(tiuj ĉi))\\b through at Tekstaro and you'll find many results, and even in a simple Google search.

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