mccambjd:Oh, I suppose we do. Powerful ultrasonic cleaners are sometimes called "cell disruptors."
Does that give you an idea why we still use old fashioned water?

That sounds rather pleasent.

Here's a thought that's related to both the forum topic and the purpose of the site where it's hosted: In keeping with Z.'s original aspiration for Esperanto and considering the utopian nature of Earth in the ST universe (never mind William Shatner's involvement in Incubus), what if the humans in those various series are speaking Esperanto that's effectively translated into English?

ElfMage:Here's a thought that's related to both the forum topic and the purpose of the site where it's hosted: In keeping with Z.'s original aspiration for Esperanto and considering the utopian nature of Earth in the ST universe (never mind William Shatner's involvement in Incubus), what if the humans in those various series are speaking Esperanto that's effectively translated into English?

As I see it, their universal translator effectively precludes any need for a common language whatsoever. I think it's a bit of a cheap shot in the Star Trek world. Only very late in the series does it take time for the universal translator to acquire a new language. In other shows, the translator is translating every word perfectly, of a race whose language it has not even heard before!

But on Babylon 5, they use English (is my understanding), but at least they do have people speaking, for example, Minbari only, and others making (not very successful) attempts to learn it!

erinja:

ElfMage:Here's a thought that's related to both the forum topic and the purpose of the site where it's hosted: In keeping with Z.'s original aspiration for Esperanto and considering the utopian nature of Earth in the ST universe (never mind William Shatner's involvement in Incubus), what if the humans in those various series are speaking Esperanto that's effectively translated into English?

As I see it, their universal translator effectively precludes any need for a common language whatsoever. I think it's a bit of a cheap shot in the Star Trek world. Only very late in the series does it take time for the universal translator to acquire a new language. In other shows, the translator is translating every word perfectly, of a race whose language it has not even heard before!

But on Babylon 5, they use English (is my understanding), but at least they do have people speaking, for example, Minbari only, and others making (not very successful) attempts to learn it!

My theory on that is that EVERY character's language and speech are translated into English for the benefit of the viewer, by virtue of the UT, except where explicitly heard as another language. C'mon, it's a TV show; we know it's not real. I'm simply offering a for-instance for the common, everyday use of Esperanto by all humans, as I said before.

ElfMage:...what if the humans in those various series are speaking Esperanto that's effectively translated into English?

Don Harlow makes some interesting points concerning this: http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/EBook/app02.h....

Kwekubo:
Don Harlow makes some interesting points concerning this: http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/EBook/app02.h....

Thanks for the link, Kwekubo! After reading it, I figured out exactly where I'd first heard of Esperanto and when I attempted to learn it the first time: after reading Harry Harrison's "The Stainless Steel Rat" series, when I was 12 or 13.

I must admit, the universal translator as depicted in TNG and forward is the one technology that I just cannot stand. Let's put it this way, as much as one may keep an open mind thinking that there are lots of elements we do not yet understand and that may change how we can do certain thing, such as traveling faster than light, for example, it just will never be possible for any such piece of technology to exist. You could have the fastest computer that you can ever imagine, spoken languages just cannot be directly translated in real-time due to their structure. So unless that device can also read minds or go back it time, it just cannot be.

I do beleive that any producer widely using Espenranto in a new sci-fi show as mankind's future would be visionary and may be able to bring something new to this aging market. I would certainly give it a look! Joss whedon did use a lot of Chinese in Firefly... (I know it didn't last a full season, but I still like that idea).

Islander:I must admit, the universal translator as depicted in TNG and forward is the one technology that I just cannot stand. Let's put it this way, as much as one may keep an open mind thinking that there are lots of elements we do not yet understand and that may change how we can do certain thing, such as traveling faster than light, for example, it just will never be possible for any such piece of technology to exist. You could have the fastest computer that you can ever imagine, spoken languages just cannot be directly translated in real-time due to their structure. So unless that device can also read minds or go back it time, it just cannot be.

I do beleive that any producer widely using Esperanto in a new sci-fi show as mankind's future would be visionary and may be able to bring something new to this aging market. I would certainly give it a look! Joss Whedon did use a lot of Chinese in Firefly... (I know it didn't last a full season, but I still like that idea).

Nobody says the UT isn't on some sort of time-delay; I think it would have to be, at least to load the respective linguistic database or analyze the speech of unknown races. Think about it: How often does anyone on those shows start speaking the INSTANT communication is established, even with
Starfleet?

Nobody says the UT isn't on some sort of time-delay;

Actually, they did. In the Voyager espisode "37", pre-warp humans (more specifically a pre-wwii Japanese officer) is amazed that everybody else is speaking Japanese loud and clear, to which Janeway explain the UT is doing this, transparently to users. The UT did not translate what was said in Japanese, it made so that everybody appeared to be speaking the same language. There just cannot be any scientific explanation for something like this.

mccambjd:Thanks for the link, Kwekubo! After reading it, I figured out exactly where I'd first heard of Esperanto and when I attempted to learn it the first time: after reading Harry Harrison's "The Stainless Steel Rat" series, when I was 12 or 13.

Nedankinde! I went about it the other way round - I read The Stainless Steel Rat after seeing it mentioned in something to do with Esperanto (possibly the same page I linked to).

Islander:The UT did not translate what was said in Japanese, it made so that everybody appeared to be speaking the same language. There just cannot be any scientific explanation for something like this.

Maybe a TARDIS was cruising by at the time? After all, it did make a tiny cameo appearance once in an episode of Red Dwarf. A show which (to curve back towards topic) is a particularly noteworthy example of Esperanto being used in sci-fi. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taqUQm00UDA (If you're too lazy to watch it from the start, then skip ahead about 1:45 into the clip.)